New theme: "Century"

[North Wiedna]

http://i55.tinypic.com/w9cy0h.jpg
Could the RMB be extended laterally to fit the whole screen?

[Spartan Philidelphia]

I think it makes sense for the WA symbol on the side bar to only show for WA members.

[Standica]

I like it a lot, but I do have a few very minor suggestions:

Regarding the login link on the banner. I thought it was very easy to miss and not see, especially on the fairly light grey back ground. Perhaps make it slightly larger and/or bring it slightly further out of the corner?

Secondly, where a nation's region is written (on the nation's page), can it be moved slightly to the left so it lines up with the text below it? Either that, or move it further to the right so it's "properly" indented (if you know what I mean). Or how about moving the region right so it lines up with the information table above, and then doing the same with the regional influence on the opposite side- pushing it left so it lines up with the table also.

But apart from those frankly minuscule suggestions, I think it's great

[[violet]]

Thanks again for all the feedback! Really appreciate it, even if I'm not addressing your comment specifically.

The top banner was made maybe 75% larger and the sidebar only slightly larger. I'm not sure if the top banner should be so large. I'll reserve my judgement until changes are made, since the boldness creates the illusion of a larger header. Another idea might be to decrease the font size, since it's much, much larger than anything else on the page.

This seems to be the general opinion, so we'll work up a less blunt banner in the next few days and try that.

The banner change is 83px -> 126px, by the way, a 50% increase. The sidebar is 21% larger (160px -> 194px).

Using Google Chrome: http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v234/ ... Cap031.jpg (No add-on's installed.)

I'm using Google Chrome, but this does not happen to me with or without AdBlock. :\

Me neither. Can I get a browser version number (Spanner -> About) and OS version from people seeing that glitch?

A minor point is that the Regional Happenings line-wraps at a width much less than that of the Civil Headquarters. This looks weird to me. (Firefox 3.6.12, Windows 7)

I think you must be using an ad-blocking tool, and are seeing text wrapping around a block that your browser has removed.

This is just a tiny difference, but somehow it stuck out at me. When mousing over a delegate's name (on the top of the regional page) in the new version, there's an underscore before their flag.

Well spotted! I'll fix that.

This is a very minor complaint, but I don't really like how my national motto appears in italics. I use cyrillic letters, and I think they look rather strange italicized.

Hmm, hadn't thought of that. Thanks.

I miss the login field and password on the left frame. It was easy for me to simply click and login rather then have to click "Login" and go through the routine with each nation.

You don't need to click Login in the new theme; you can just wave your mouse around the top-right LOGIN and use the box that pops up.

I haz wide screen laptop...the new layout makes the RMB so wiiiiiiiiiiiide...it's annoying to read it this way

How wide do you have your browser? We can put a maximum width on the RMB. The downside is that it takes control away from the user; i.e. at the moment you can resize your browser to whatever dimensions you like, but if we put a limit on width, then you won't be able to make the content wider than that.

Could the RMB be extended laterally to fit the whole screen?

It does widen (as per Crazy Girl's comment above), but only if there's content. In your pic, all posts are very short.

[Crazy girl]

I...have no idea what you;re talking about. Could be my crappy English

[New South Hell]

A minor point is that the Regional Happenings line-wraps at a width much less than that of the Civil Headquarters. This looks weird to me. (Firefox 3.6.12, Windows 7)

I think you must be using an ad-blocking tool, and are seeing text wrapping around a block that your browser has removed.

Yep, that explains it. First time I've seen a case where an ad makes a page look better.

[[violet]]

I...have no idea what you;re talking about. Could be my crappy English

At the moment, the site will stretch as wide as your browser. So if you have a very wide screen, you can maximize your browser and let the content spill all the way across. Or you can NOT maximize it, and make the content narrower. It's your choice.

If I set a site width limit, then you would be able to leave your browser maximized but not have the content take up the whole width of your screen, which makes it more readable. But it's also kind of wasteful, because it creates a lot of whitespace. And, more problematically, it imposes my idea of a "right" width on everybody. If you don't like it, too bad, because the site will not widen to fill your browser no matter how you resize it. That's why I'm reluctant to impose a width limit.

[[violet]]

I think you must be using an ad-blocking tool, and are seeing text wrapping around a block that your browser has removed.

Yep, that explains it. First time I've seen a case where an ad makes a page look better.

It's because of some trickery around improving page speed. There are "placeholder" blocks that don't actually contain ads but reserve a space for them. This way ads can load last, without slowing down the display of any content. Your ad blocker is probably removing the ad but not the placeholder.

[Crazy girl]

Oooh..that. Thanks for explaining. I always have my browser maximized, I'm too lazy to make it fit whatever. Think I'll just keep using the old theme, with the names on the side. That works

[Mayor For Life]

I'm pretty happy by what I've seen so far of the new look (haven't gone to everywhere yet), with one big exception. I really don't like the look of the new Civil Headquarters. I find that having the name of the sender and the message text side-by-side makes things a lot more readable for me. I realize if there are long messages, this is a less efficient use of space, but for me, readability trumps compactness. If this aspect of the new look remains unchanged, I have a tough decision ahead on whether or not to stick with the old interface....

1. Chiming in on this. Stacking user above quote makes threads a lot harder to read. We're creatures of habit and every forum I'm on scrolls the thread to the right of the user identification data.

2. RMB line length is a concern. This study suggests 95 characters per line (cpl) might be optimal. Wider than that and the readability of longer posts might be compromised. I understand the point about user freedom to use the display as they see fit, but most web sites I visit that are text heavy impose a maxlinelimit because there's a balance between usability and the freedom to make their site look as ugly and unusable as physically possible.

3. Still holding on to my dream of a handicap (and handheld gizmo) accessible W3C compatible site.

4. Why not use a different shade or color to differentiate the RMB frame and Census frame? Sameness inhibits navigability. While some displays have gone Godzilla-friendly, others have grown smaller to make them more portable. There's a lot of scrolling about on them and a simple set of links to Census, RH, RMB at or near top of page would be nice.

5. Ad in the middle of the page next to RH might be excellent sales real estate but it puts the advertising "in" the game rather than around it. Only change I deem butt ugly.

Just trying to be helpful and positive.

(Windoze 7 & XP, OSX, Ubuntu, and whatever clipped version of OSX they run on iPhone in Opera, Firefox, SeaMonkey, Safari, and Internet Exploder ... can't get Mosaic to boot any more. )

[[violet]]

RMB line length is a concern. This study suggests 95 characters per line (cpl) might be optimal. Wider than that and the readability of longer posts might be compromised. I understand the point about user freedom to use the display as they see fit, but most web sites I visit that are text heavy impose a maxlinelimit because there's a balance between usability and the freedom to make their site look as ugly and unusable as physically possible.

You're right about readability, but classic-style RMB is unusually cramped (below 80 characters per line even on quite wide screens). I guess a compromise would be more traditional forum style, with the "3 hours ago" underneath the nation name but those two still offset to the left.

Worth noting that this forum is far wider; even with the sidebar on forum posts are wider than Century-style RMB posts. So I wonder if it seems too wide because it's new.

3. Still holding on to my dream of a handicap (and handheld gizmo) accessible W3C compatible site.

We have one! http://m.nationstates.net

4. Why not use a different shade or color to differentiate the RMB frame and Census frame?

Unibot had some suggestions for tweaking the look of those tables earlier in this thread. I will have a play with those in the next week or so.

a simple set of links to Census, RH, RMB at or near top of page would be nice.

Yes, I have actually looked at that. I haven't found an attractive way to do it without cluttering the top of the Region page.

5. Ad in the middle of the page next to RH might be excellent sales real estate but it puts the advertising "in" the game rather than around it. Only change I deem butt ugly.

You mean you'd prefer the top banner ad (on all site pages, as now) instead of the one on Regional Happenings? Or that you'd prefer no ads at all.

[Buffett and Colbert]

Since there aren't many huge changes, there isn't much not to like if you're satisfied with the current version.

However I don't particularly care for the "Wide-format RMB on region page." It doesn't really make things more legible, accessible, or do much of anything, really. But it does give a look of disorder. It could just be my OCD-like qualities, wanting everything to neatly fit into place, but...

Aside form that, it's great. I especially like the banner. It's bold.

[[violet]]

I should say with regard to ads that we're going to need to go to a reasonably wide trial to figure out which of them are worth keeping. Until we put thousands of pageviews through, we have no idea what they're going to earn. So the ads will be one of the last things I tweak.

[[violet]]

The trial is gameside only, but if/when the new theme becomes the default, the forum will use it.

So does "default" that mean the old version will be available for use if we want to?

Forgot to answer this earlier.

I think yes. I can't confirm 100%, because there's a chance the forum will outfox me, but I'm almost sure that the old look will remain available in the forum as well, even after Century becomes default.

In fact, now I think about it more, it's likely that the next stage of testing will be a wider trial, with a "Want to test NS's new look?" link on your home page somewhere, and at that point your choice will take effect both game-side and forum-side.

[Bluth Corporation]

I have to say, it'd be a lot better if the transition between the banner, the sidebar, and the main content area were either less abrupt or "dolled up" somehow, say with a fake 3-D effect or drop shadow or something. Otherwise, the banner especially is nothing more than a larger, more obnoxious, and more intrusive version of what we've got now.

[Syvorji]

I like it, and in fact, I viewed it a while ago, through Google, I do not know when, but must've been before Sunday. Anyways, why not scrap the current format, since many computers nowadays are touchscreens, and even mobile phones and replace the sidebar with a wheel. Clicking it rotates it, and rolling over activates part of it, and to have the look for everything. Regions will be split into 3 sections, info, recent categories and the RMB, the World will have everything in a circle, with the category just outside the wheel, the WA will be like the world, with 1 resolution at a time for vote (the split doesn't benefit anyone, since nowadays, only a few resolutions appear), the News will be ditto, FAQ will be ditto, same with about, the forum will be centered on a wheel, with sections, and then from there, forums and then to see the thread. Even the editing system will be easier, to navigate since it will be a wheel four tabs. One will be the formats, one the smilies, one for the options and polls and one the post itself. You cannot use two at the same time, making it simpler, so they won't get distracted. In fact, the reply button will happen if you double click on a post, while single click opens the quotes. For the main wheel, it will be centered at NationStates if logged off, with it allowing create a new nation, with ad's on that wheel, as well as a button being Login, and if logged on, it will be split into logout, settings, telegrams (it will be updated), dossier, reports and settings. For ads, it will be placed in the middle of every page, so scroll down and see one ad going down with you. The wheel color in default will be light blue, and will be 3D, with that globe banner expanded and flattened, as if it covered the background. Now the Century theme is better, eh?

[Aksun]

I think the login box should still be in effect but possibly moved down. For noobs and people like me that have trouble seeing a white LOGIN on a white backround.

[Hassett]

However we used to have a login box in the banner (pre-Jolt), which some people found useful to quickly switch between puppets, and they were disappointed when it got replaced by an ad. So I thought I might bring it back.

After using the new site for a good five minutes, I love this feature the most!

[Reploid Productions]

Anyways, why not scrap the current format, since many computers nowadays are touchscreens, and even mobile phones and replace the sidebar with a wheel.

Not to steal NSG's favorite line, but source? I don't know where you are, but in my neck of the woods touchscreens aren't very common, at least not for personal computers, and fancy website layouts with all the bells and whistles you're describing tend to be a nightmare to try and navigate, hard on slower internet connections, and rife with glitches that require constant programming tweaks (and thus at least one dedicated full-time programmer, if not an entire team) to fix.

And [violet] will probably say pretty much the same thing, but what you're proposing sounds horribly complicated and requiring a ton of programming to completely overhaul how the site and the forum handles information; and that's not what the new theme is, the theme is merely slapping a fresh coat of paint on the existing code, not an overhaul. It doesn't sound to me like it would improve site functionality, and all these sectioned wheels would probably make things harder to find or work with.

[Flibbleites]

hard on slower internet connections,

And older computers, I'm running a 7 year old laptop that aged about as well as milk. Fancy websites tend to bring my system to a crawl.

[Aksun]

hard on slower internet connections,

And older computers, I'm running a 7 year old laptop that aged about as well as milk. Fancy websites tend to bring my system to a crawl.

I agree with this as well... I am running an I7 and the "century" should be capatible with old and new

[Allrule]

However we used to have a login box in the banner (pre-Jolt), which some people found useful to quickly switch between puppets, and they were disappointed when it got replaced by an ad. So I thought I might bring it back.

After using the new site for a good five minutes, I love this feature the most!

Seconded.

My main problem, like most of the people in this thread, is that the banner is ridiculously large and gets in the way. I'm also going to agree with North Wied and say that the RMB probably shouldn't stretch across the whole damn screen. Other than that, it's good.

[Unibot]

Worth noting that this forum is far wider; even with the sidebar on forum posts are wider than Century-style RMB posts. So I wonder if it seems too wide because it's new.

You'll note however, the forum has our profile information in a column, and doesn't put our profile in a row that alternates with the text. Perhaps shaping the RMB after our forum posts would be smart? I realize you probably don't have the forum code available to adapt, but using the same rounded rectangled boxes, with the post information on the left, using the same alternating colors (that *cough* were suggested by a particularly handsome individual ), would bring some connection between the forum world and the gameplay world. It would be much different than we have now, because the RMB wouldn't have a holistic border, and the columns within the post wouldn't be delineated.. but that could be something to try out.

[Mousebumples]

Using Google Chrome: http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v234/ ... Cap031.jpg (No add-on's installed.)

Me neither. Can I get a browser version number (Spanner -> About) and OS version from people seeing that glitch?

Firefox - v3.6.10
Chrome - v7.0.514.44
OS - Microsoft 7 Professional (I can't find a version number anywhere, but if you need one and could help me figure out where to look, that'd be good.)

However, I just checked with a puppet of mine, and it DOES NOT have that problem. However, this account (for both browsers) does show that line. I'll try to do a quick run-through of my various puppets (that I recall/are active/etc.), and see what the count is for the gray line and not having the gray line on the Issues page.

EDIT: None of my puppets had that problem in Chrome; however, the problem does still occur with this nation. I don't know if it's somehow WA-related (I'd doubt it, but none of my puppets are WA members, for obvious reasons), or WA-Delegate related, etc. One of my puppets is in my same region, so I don't think that's the issue.

For the record, the issue is persistent, whether I have unanswered issues, issues pending a "response," etc. (I just waited to update, now, after the "Update" to ensure that that was the case.) If there's any other information I can provide to help, let me know.

[Allrule]

I've got the gray line too.
http://img714.imageshack.us/img714/7842 ... 292059.gif
Firefox 3.6.12 is the browser I'm using.