Switching WA/ Delegate Powers on non WA

[Kazmr]

Mouse: Havent answered issues for probably six years other than to trigger XD. But if the popup exists for the issue could the same popup not be added for quitting from the page? Joining is already a two-step process, and since quitting can have more serious repercussions I think there's no harm to be had from making quitting one as well (i.e. click the reaign button on WA page, popup appears asking to confirm and saying that you'll lose all endorsements and delegacy powers and must also be clicked as well).

[Covenant Elite]

Seconds ago: The United Kingdom of ChingisHan13 lost WA Delegate status.
Seconds ago: The United Kingdom of ChingisHan13 became regional WA Delegate.

Did this get implemented? It looks like the taggers are losing their powers in regions when they resign.

[Cormac Stark]

Seconds ago: The United Kingdom of ChingisHan13 lost WA Delegate status.
Seconds ago: The United Kingdom of ChingisHan13 became regional WA Delegate.

Did this get implemented? It looks like the taggers are losing their powers in regions when they resign.

If so, it's yet another radical change admins have implemented without sufficient player feedback, that is going to have disproportionately bad consequences for defenders and natives. Congratulations once again to the admin team (and honorable mention to 10000 Islands!) for a job well done.

[Ever-Wandering Souls]

a) what if all endos are lost, but the resign is held until after a very fast tag?

b) is there suddenly an RO delaty too, or can the delegate just make themselves master RO before resigning and tag with that later?

I'll also bring up the RL example that's been mentioned before against this - when an offical "resigns" in real life, they don;t usually walk out that day so much as they wrap up over the next month or so until the new guy comes in.

[PrussianEmpire]

If all of this is true, I recommend the Administration team roll back the changes. This significantly hurts both sides of the R/D game and quite frankly makes it less fun.

[Covenant Elite]

9 minutes ago: The Jingoistic States of ChingisHan lost WA Delegate status.
10 minutes ago: The Jingoistic States of ChingisHan appointed The Jingoistic States of ChingisHan as Vice-Delegate with authority over Appearance, Border Control, Communications, Embassies, and Polls in The duddies.
10 minutes ago: The Jingoistic States of ChingisHan became regional WA Delegate.

That didn't take long.

[Luna Amore]

I'll also bring up the RL example that's been mentioned before against this - when an offical "resigns" in real life, they don;t usually walk out that day so much as they wrap up over the next month or so until the new guy comes in.

Entire nations also don't usually move by way of black helicopters. Realism is relative.

[Ever-Wandering Souls]

I'll also bring up the RL example that's been mentioned before against this - when an offical "resigns" in real life, they don;t usually walk out that day so much as they wrap up over the next month or so until the new guy comes in.

Entire nations also don't usually move by way of black helicopters. Realism is relative.

Very true, but it has been mentioned before that in some cases, realism is a factor (example - been used to defend why stamps on undelivered items on not returned), even while it gets run over in other cases Never hurts to try an angle, eh Luna>?

Considering what goes for a valid argument around these parts varies by the minute in threads like the RO one and how active this is about to be, and how quickly things get sprung without warning (and worked around, as we've seen) {and then either deemed ineffective or patched}

Speaking, even in the worst case (can't just appoint an RO, lose on 0endos as well {eliminating a "snake" method where 3 taggers switch off point to allow the last point to make a quick tag while the raid moves on}, etc), all this does is hamstring tag teams down to less hits per update by forcing them to make a quick tag as they go.

[Luna Amore]

Entire nations also don't usually move by way of black helicopters. Realism is relative.

Very true, but it has been mentioned before that in some cases, realism is a factor (example - been used to defend why stamps on undelivered items on not returned), even while it gets run over in other cases Never hurts to try an angle, eh Luna>?

Ask Lenyo how well appealing to realism works with me.

[Ever-Wandering Souls]

You know, balance wise, I also don't think this does much.

Here's my thinking -

even if this is made as hardcore/strict as possible, all you're doing is slowing tagging down, after each hit / between hits

There is no greater chance for defenders to stop any given tag, and if anything, it hurts defender detags more than raider tags - it's far faster to slap up a copy-paste WFE before resigning and moving on than it is to actually look up a previous regional RMB and replace that. You're slowing the potential detag rate more than you're slowing the potential tag rate. It's not a change that make defenders any more able/likely to return fire, and rather than bringing balance/activity, serves merely to lessen R/D activity as whole.

[PrussianEmpire]

Terrible terrible change.

[The Type 49 TARDIS]

There is no greater chance for defenders to stop any given tag, and if anything, it hurts defender detags more than raider tags - it's far faster to slap up a copy-paste WFE before resigning and moving on than it is to actually look up a previous regional RMB and replace that. You're slowing the potential detag rate more than you're slowing the potential tag rate. It's not a change that make defenders any more able/likely to return fire, and rather than bringing balance/activity, serves merely to lessen R/D activity as whole.

That is very true. Could this be the beginning of the end for R/D?

[PrussianEmpire]

There is no greater chance for defenders to stop any given tag, and if anything, it hurts defender detags more than raider tags - it's far faster to slap up a copy-paste WFE before resigning and moving on than it is to actually look up a previous regional RMB and replace that. You're slowing the potential detag rate more than you're slowing the potential tag rate. It's not a change that make defenders any more able/likely to return fire, and rather than bringing balance/activity, serves merely to lessen R/D activity as whole.

That is very true. Could this be the beginning of the end for R/D?

It'll cause tag raids to decline and for occupations to increase I would imagine.

[The Type 49 TARDIS]

That is very true. Could this be the beginning of the end for R/D?

It'll cause tag raids to decline and for occupations to increase I would imagine.

Occupations can be (depending on the region raided) the easiest type of raiding for a Raider. Isn't it also the hardest for a Defender, now more if no one will be tag raiding? And couldn't this also hurt the Raiders if they spread out their forces too thin?

[PrussianEmpire]

Excuse me Administration team for asking this but why was the Gameplay Community, specifically the R/D Community, not asked for input on this? We're the ones who deal with this daily and we're the ones who rely on the system to work smoothly.

[The Type 49 TARDIS]

Excuse me Administration team for asking this but why was the Gameplay Community, specifically the R/D Community, not asked for input on this? We're the ones who deal with this daily and we're the ones who rely on the system to work smoothly.

I have the same question.

[The Type 49 TARDIS]

Cause this is kind of ridiculous.

[Ever-Wandering Souls]

a) what if all endos are lost, but the resign is held until after a very fast tag?

b) is there suddenly an RO delaty too, or can the delegate just make themselves master RO before resigning and tag with that later?

I'll also bring up the RL example that's been mentioned before against this - when an offical "resigns" in real life, they don;t usually walk out that day so much as they wrap up over the next month or so until the new guy comes in.

Just emphasizing these questions (note, both seem to be false for now, but still interested in plans to implement - since, it wouldn't be a stretch to assume more is coming, considering how fast taggers already adapted to appointing an RO before resigning).

I'll add, c) will this effect nations who leave a region? (I.e. does leaving = power loss as well?) with the same extender applied to the first two.

[Cora II]

Our game went upside down in one night.

We'll adapt.

Last raid report of old physics: viewtopic.php?p=26768014#p26768014

[ChingisHan]

9 minutes ago: The Jingoistic States of ChingisHan lost WA Delegate status.
10 minutes ago: The Jingoistic States of ChingisHan appointed The Jingoistic States of ChingisHan as Vice-Delegate with authority over Appearance, Border Control, Communications, Embassies, and Polls in The duddies.
10 minutes ago: The Jingoistic States of ChingisHan became regional WA Delegate.

That didn't take long.

Thanks I try

[Ever-Wandering Souls]

Excuse me Administration team for asking this but why was the Gameplay Community, specifically the R/D Community, not asked for input on this? We're the ones who deal with this daily and we're the ones who rely on the system to work smoothly.

I do question how simply using RO's as a loophole could have not been considered, and assuming it was, what exactly this is then intended to change. Adaptations were made by the end of the update. The Cimmerians assessed the situation, made a plan, and kept right on tagging without missing a beat. Why was this, an entirely new change in an entirely new area, lossely tied to a suggestion that hasn't seen an admin comment since 2010 , turned on out of the blue, before any of the well-discussed RO fixes that actually reached relative compromise (or as close as GP can get), were actively on the table, and were designed to bring balance and activity, not death?

Happy to fix, but I'd like to hear from a couple of gameplayers that this isn't going to eviscerate some essential invasion/defense strategy I'm not aware of.

You asked this six years ago. I don't know the ballpark of when Halc popularized tagging off my head as I'd like, but TBR's first tag of 4 hits wasn't until January 15, 2012. I can also point to TBH forum records discussing "flash raiding" tactics as recently brought into being

(Apr 30 2013)

The Black Hawks have now acquired the ability to pinpoint update times with near 100% accuracy, overcoming update variance. The record for these such raids in The Black Hawks is 1 second arrival before update. On a vast number of occasions, The Black Hawks have scored between 2 and 6 seconds arrival before update. Such raiding is often combined with using a vast number of switcher puppets (10+), continuing through the whole update. We call this update raiding. The record for most regions captured in a single update is 28. These are the records across all of NationStates. No other raiding organisations have been able to match The Black Hawks in this style of raiding.

For reference, the prior at least is around the same time period that you still had to use a different email for every WA nation you wanted to switch to. That was 2012. Last admin comment on this proposal was two years before that.

So, I'll take this as a chance to say now - " this isn't going to eviscerate some essential invasion/defense strategy I'm not aware of." A little posthumously, mind you. But not if you let them use RO's as a loophole. In which case, what exactly did this do?

(furthermore, on an earlier note, raiders are more likely to use the RO loophole than defenders - since you cannot remove yourself as an RO, detagging using that method would leave a trace - the RO - where standard practice these days is to leave no record of tagging, just the pristine state. )

[ChingisHan]

It seems stupid to take away most of raiders' effectiveness just to dispel the defenders sense of self-worthlessness.

*If we can't defend regions for sh*t, lets make the mods do it for us!*

*HUZZAH!*

[RiderSyl]

I don't understand why some have such high expectations from the staff here.

I mean, at least they're not making you guys have to pay to participate in your minigames.

[Ever-Wandering Souls]

It seems stupid to take away most of raiders' effectiveness just to dispel the defenders sense of self-worthlessness.

*If we can't defend regions for sh*t, lets make the mods do it for us!*

*HUZZAH!*

Snark without reason or suggestion isn't going to help anyone here, and isn't going to get you listened to by anyone who can actually change anything. Neither will insulting defenders, or painting the mods (who have less effect on this compared to admins anyways) as cronies. If you think this is a bad idea, add to the chorus of why/what could be done to fix it, rather than to the chorus of senseless whining, please.

[RiderSyl]

Snark without reason or suggestion isn't going to help anyone here, and isn't going to get you listened to by anyone who can actually change anything. Neither will insulting defenders, or painting the mod (who have less effect on this compared to admins) as cronies.

Sorry Souls, but where's the indication the staff is actually going to listen to anyone, no matter how they approach the matter?
From where I sit, it looks like the amount of influence the players have in this decision is somewhere between 0 and -179.