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Suggested Modification of WA Endorsement System

Bug reports, general help, ideas for improvements, and questions about how things are meant to work.

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What should the WA endorsement system be?

v = 1 + e (current system)
18
35%
v = 1 + e until v=100 (endorsement cap)
2
4%
v = 1 + e/2 (non-discriminatory reduction)
2
4%
v = 1 + e^(1/2) (square root system)
2
4%
v = 1 + e^(3/4) (Nilla system)
1
2%
Banbury System (see OP)
21
41%
v = 1 (get rid of endorsements)
5
10%
 
Total votes : 51

User avatar
Nessie
Attaché
 
Posts: 78
Founded: Apr 15, 2013
Compulsory Consumerist State

Postby Nessie » Mon Nov 28, 2016 8:05 pm

Nilla Wayfarers wrote:Then delegates would be looking to get exactly 75 endorsements, so their extra votes are as powerful as possible.
Having more than 75 endorsements would still get you more votes than just having 75. The marginal benefit is just lower.
Nilla Wayfarers wrote:Larger regions's delegates would have votes in the double digits, on top of the votes of the individual nations that endorse them. They'll still have considerable power.

  1. By my count exactly twenty delegates would have votes in the double digits, most of them just barely, and not all of them actually vote.
  2. The largest delegate in the game, the delegate of TNP, would have 37 votes, which sounds like a lot until you realize that they had to 1,638 WA nations (as of this post) into their region to reach that level. 37 is a drop in the bucket compared to 1638 individual votes. The delegate's bonus is beyond insignificant when examined in scale.
  3. Might be helpful to the discussion, the below table takes examines all of the votes (as of a few minutes ago) vote on the current SC resolution under the current voting system, the square root method, the marginal rate method, and the one nation - one vote method.
ENDOSCURRENT VOTING METHODSQUARE ROOT METHODMARGINAL RATE METHODONE NATION - ONE VOTE METHOD
Number of Nations Voting (No Del Bonus)N/A6,6316,6316,6316,631
Total Votes (Incl Del Bonus)N/A13,7207,95311,2256,631
Average Vote Per NationN/A2.0691.1991.6931
Total of DelegatesN/A7,6941,9275,199605
Individual NationsN/A6,0266,0266,0266,026
Aleisyr586587251521
Tsunamy488489231371
Big Bad Badger484485231371
Boltor448449221311
Mousebumples410411211251
Aelitia350351201161
Amerion20921015951
Neo Kervoskia19719815931
Solorni18018114911
Vancouvia15715814871
Libetarian Republics15615713871
Mikeswill10510611801
The Salaxalans969711781
Amsterwald949511781
Red Dusk II848510771
RunDown67689681
Blood Stained Inu57589581
Ivory Rhodes54558551
WikiPlay53548541
Amenembourg51528521
Imperial Eagle48498491
Ransium44458451
A Unified Earth42437431
Eldrahar42437431
Baconbacon12337387381
NewTexas36377371
Helaw35367361
Independent Federation of Croatia34357351
Adzdanads31327321
El Fiji Grande31327321
Vavax31327321
Indian Russia31327321
Trotskyish31327321
Ainin29306301
Avendonia27286281
Sciongrad27286281
The rouge Christmas state26276271
Albarusija26276271
Enclave of Soviet Germany25266261
Entgeistert25266261
Taprobana25266261
Ryanvillle24256251
Aetheirium24256251
Portugal and Brazil and Algarves24256251
Old Tellarian Empire23246241
Kitzerland22236231
Republic of Tacos22236231
Bathor22236231
Odinburgh20215211
Greater Banitia20215211
North Arkana19205201
Ten Cities19205201
Uqbaristan19205201
Bernie Nation18195191
Christian Democrats18195191
Neop17185181
The Cascadias17185181
Ancient Free and Accepted Masons17185181
Ciltyn17185181
Sangheilios II16175171
The Fatheland16175171
Arkotania16175171
New Nationale Einheit15165161
Beazlend15165161
Great Marsinia14155151
Secret dog14155151
The Stalker14155151
Pizza Farm13145141
Revitallia13145141
ScotlandSerenity13145141
Metcalfe13145141
Magthere12134131
Ariusgrad12134131
GABErial12134131
Xantha11124121
I THE GREAT PAPYRUS11124121
Lamebrainia11124121
United Christian10114111
United Furry Alliance10114111
Heliosy10114111
Ancian10114111
The Governments of Work10114111
Western Arab Empire10114111
Gotesbourg10114111
The Voltarum10114111
Chesion Isle10114111
Godly Archangels10114111
Lamoni10114111
Worsia10114111
Jakalu9104101
March of maedhros9104101
New Constitution of Lost Earth9104101
Grarrgtopia9104101
Ninjas-0079104101
Kitsco9104101
Serenarea89491
Universal Socialism89491
The Emerald Union89491
Socialist Cantons89491
Voik89491
United Nation Of Romnia89491
New Ethyos89491
Omniabstracta89491
Marxist Venezuela89491
Cagestan89491
Cats Love Marshmallows89491
Draconae89491
Latvian Spartopiee89491
The Interstellar Federation89491
Northern Nordia89491
Ochea89491
Reillysland89491
The Sovereign Kingdom of Immobilia89491
Wimbledonia78481
Katie May78481
Parakka Northland78481
Muzztopia78481
Clerigh Republic78481
Orcish States78481
The Crusade of Jerusalem78481
Luna the Savior78481
Ursus Moon Colony78481
Czechostan78481
Nerf Mellons78481
Merlinton78481
United States Of Devonta78481
Furbystan67371
The Ancient World67371
HMS Ravnabbor67371
Whaleopia67371
Voxin Cariba67371
Imperiil67371
Ovisia67371
Frenequesta67371
New Californiia67371
Lux Dominion67371
Catos67371
Gerryasomis67371
Geburtstag67371
New Velonia67371
Novak Croatia67371
Antartica5567371
Kingdom of Neph67371
FOniu67371
Arabian Kingdoms67371
Amalgia67371
The Central Shadow Nation67371
Pestan67371
United utrikite states67371
Jihadiya67371
Saint Irwin67371
The Manticoran Empire56361
Freiheidt56361
Newish Cambodia56361
Japrussia56361
Jean-Luc Picardia56361
Alstron56361
Krinchreich56361
The Fing Motherland56361
Ublana56361
Lacast56361
Aspergards56361
NewNorthWales56361
Mercedini56361
Nuak56361
Gellahn56361
Pokken-Land56361
Amberada56361
Wonderton56361
Razonica56361
Otaku Stratus56361
Herbandua56361
Turbltz56361
Mushcap56361
Walgreens56361
Laharao45351
Januostium45351
Parlmone45351
UIJ45351
PR Furlan45351
Olektopia45351
Kingdom of Heaven on Earth45351
Maracos45351
Golanchia45351
Riichi45351
Danubian Hungarian Republic45351
Demonvine45351
Liecthenbourg45351
Kalix45351
Winterpast45351
Kramoliun45351
Mhmmmm45351
New Yankdom45351
Vershina45351
Stratovar45351
Tykeen45351
Scrubation45351
Victores45351
Memes land 4 lyf45351
A Friend in Need45351
Retiva45351
Quortex Empire45351
Open Source Nation45351
Europe and Oceania45351
Gallade45351
Laissez Faire Republic45351
Adesiem45351
Communist Volkstrad45351
Willsylvania45351
TexJeeps45351
Ayme45351
Lunar Sectum45351
Palgaron45351
Hatay34341
Aclion34341
Spanish Micronesia34341
Zchoinia34341
Astrolinium34341
Pearie34341
Blanchland34341
Senyet34341
Idiot Moronistan34341
North Balvinchen34341
Beutarch34341
San Juan de Sinka34341
The Socialist Sovereignty of Veria34341
Holy Tedalonia34341
Irvane34341
Shepten34341
Jankhir34341
The Vegan Autonomous Zone34341
Kleinekatzen34341
Mighty Koslovia34341
Stormwrath34341
Brenneneth34341
Nucoclan34341
Yabudi34341
Planet Dolan34341
WindowsBunny34341
Mixolidian34341
Empire of Catalonia34341
Athrea34341
Eviarta34341
Republia Nova34341
The federal republic of Simonia34341
Danedonia34341
Zanibar34341
The Happpening34341
Eylisia34341
Belmer34341
Schmissmas34341
North Campbell Nation34341
SJBOSS34341
Squigs34341
New earthington34341
Founded Logic34341
Muerainia34341
Flandarz34341
Tenestizz34341
Muten-Deth34341
Novo Patria34341
Beukfustlandia34341
Wallenburg34341
United Immotia34341
Manitriton34341
Great Leeston34341
5years34341
Hogsmberg34341
Neulacia34341
Crystalia cityia34341
Warbande34341
The Akasha Colony34341
Parravon and Lyonesse34341
Petrokovia34341
Orethania34341
Wabacha34341
New Camelot of Avalonia34341
Great Cyan34341
Djo34341
American Slaughter34341
New Joshinia34341
Drittes Deutsches Reich34341
The Federal Union of Novorossiya34341
DANNISHON34341
Kastus34341
Abi Dabi Wabi34341
Cagunion34341
Federacija BiH23231
Aheiscenia23231
New Eranka23231
Arenea23231
Etnicon23231
Toopaka23231
Incoghollowell23231
Potstickerstan23231
Zapusekur23231
Scorpionniada23231
Hobbledehoybacteria-Union23231
Ioras23231
Dourterk23231
Brinkerstan23231
Novuss23231
The United Governments23231
Soumimaa23231
New Finnish Karelia23231
Juatomello23231
Heeringia23231
Dracran Bat23231
Saint-Lo23231
Borneon Nations23231
Odazdan23231
Owraerrerian Dynasty23231
Sweillia23231
AshIsland23231
Eriador23231
Ptbsweet23231
Avlandia23231
Pufferfishistania23231
United Counties of Maine23231
Great Valleys23231
Molson Iceland23231
Homelandi23231
Rodnoveri23231
Malted Jotson23231
Northern Forestavia23231
Kamchatka Republic23231
Milkemstan South23231
Telemaria23231
Kaiserschlact23231
Zeppeland23231
West Bumfillate23231
Proreadem23231
Ges Des23231
Hulunbuir23231
Jgromowsky23231
Assiniboia and the Antillies23231
Ankya23231
JohSteKen23231
Khoi San23231
Smauoggle23231
Slartnus23231
Kindjal23231
The Servants OF Allah23231
United Front of Espea23231
Pootstown23231
DoyleNation23231
Berkir23231
Kingdom of Dankistan23231
Folzofia23231
Eriuann23231
Nova Roma et agros captos23231
Cuban del Tropico23231
Upper Spina Boonken23231
M a x i c o23231
Baptized Believers23231
Patchielandia23231
Veritas et Probitas23231
Pug Paradise23231
Science and Technologies23231
SMUDZLANDIA23231
Unified Ceres Government23231
Wrapper23231
Shake Shake23231
Kinuthraba23231
Talitorea23231
The Lleyn Peninsula23231
Pasovo-nacoBo23231
Drastha23231
United-Socialism23231
Ixlund23231
Berninia23231
Soviet Socialist Siberia23231
Bettisia23231
Phyrexia Reborn23231
Evgeniye23231
Night Phoenix23231
Diamonpopulous23231
New Socialist Saxony23231
The North American Contident23231
Social Democratic Unions23231
The Archiepelago23231
City-State of Czestochowa23231
Alantean23231
Notota23231
ChicagoBoys23231
Armidonia23231
Federalnoye agentstvo razvedki23231
Loxahatchi23231
The Nation Republic of Chase23231
Indecent Anime Empire23231
Wiking Nordland23231
Gjb200323231
Normlpeople23231
Erralax12221
Lifttasmania12221
British Federated Realms12221
Aurorae Sinus12221
Negrita12221
The Jerman Reich12221
Dallinsville12221
Minecat4ever12221
The Cavian State12221
Steelers052512221
Eythonia12221
Emmerian Union12221
Snitzerstan12221
The Iron Rebel12221
Bustium12221
Polkstreet12221
New Perotasoa12221
Califaria12221
Zombiedolphins12221
Kciddir12221
Colandane12221
Ryrgistan12221
BergADerg12221
Dylan Coopers State12221
Deos United12221
Edalt12221
MittRomneys pp12221
11 Templar Knights12221
The Imperium of Alpharius12221
Spaerta12221
The Undying Mind12221
Alexionia12221
North Cthonia12221
Carolina Alliance12221
French for Egg12221
The Constellation of Sparks12221
Republic of Sapilis12221
Swaggy Island12221
Commnisims12221
Clerona Islands12221
Imperiali12221
Tharitzera12221
Nation Of Freedom NOF12221
Kabravosk12221
Gorecountry12221
PAKISTAN STAR12221
Team Annihilators12221
Askanomerica12221
Farthendure12221
Ifrimia12221
Spiderphobia12221
Republica Popular das Capivaras12221
NukeLEAR Islands12221
Marataria12221
Ordin Apuchi12221
White Noise12221
THE SUPERIOR STATE12221
Svigsland12221
Former Soviet Republic of Leningrad12221
394r912221
East Perseland12221
Kinkerland12221
Croutonation12221
Mepan12221
New Rhodinia12221
Qazaq Eli12221
Baggus12221
Sedgistan12221
Tlanuwa12221
Goddesstonia12221
Caesarean12221
Camicon12221
Froedal12221
Commonwealth BOS12221
Curove12221
The Atmoran Diplomat12221
Eggerhexe12221
Victorian Britian12221
Praepotens12221
Wallacelavia12221
Demigod Survivors12221
A Random Canadian Empire12221
Explod12221
Alch Ters12221
Superchicken Nation12221
Lukaskia12221
Long Suffering and Eternal Piety12221
Cyrenthia12221
Cavalar12221
Armed Freedom Fighers12221
OUTER CHINESE HAVEN SOCIALISTS12221
Hassany12221
Gearholden12221
Roques12221
Jumalariik12221
Abgad12221
Meintapah12221
The German Communist Union12221
Communist Federation Of Denmark12221
Noria and Darinus12221
Altonus12221
Tableia12221
De populo12221
Clanc4312221
Ivate12221
Tyronian Socialist State12221
MIKIA12221
City Nation12221
Terrena12221
Zavina12221
Finnertzka12221
That One Island In Canada12221
Aisciai12221
Obris12221
Sagyejeol12221
Lesbatopia12221
Planet Netherlands12221
Meh Republic12221
Grasgallia12221
Sun Tzu II12221
Borkistan12221
Qazaq SSR12221
Willmia12221
Germanic Emipre12221
Frigidopia12221
Vengeful Queen Chryssi12221
The Meme Regime12221
Dwolcook12221
Orzile12221
Thuars12221
Libertarain Republicans12221
Androidgamers12221
Jackey Ru12221
Melva12221
Santos Derpa12221
Meulmania12221
Boothby12221
The ERC12221
New Australia Republic12221
Morphoses12221
Paul Marks12221
Cute Black Cats12221
Wiepolskie12221
The SnorthWeast Territories12221
Grand Enclave12221
Transcendonia12221
Fandom-Trash12221
Pewor12221
Vestusia12221
Williabeckistania12221
Lacmhacarh12221
Androidica12221
Beldaragh12221
Caruvia12221
Kwebeq12221
The Confederate States of Virginia12221
WeareAllScrewedville12221
Order of the Stick12221
Lower Grizzle12221
Reformed Rootigan Empire12221
VicStar12221
Fyrir Pozekal12221
The wasteland of Easton12221
Ebonhand 212221
De Dreamland12221
Tribaria12221
The freedom loving pineapples12221
Joselia12221
Chloros12221
Western Islevyny Land12221
Sideonia12221
The United Federation of Islands12221
CzechoSlvakia12221
PEOPLES REPUBLIC OF NEWYORK12221
Smurfey12221
Arconia Defender12221
TurfyMink12221
Thama12221
Ritchington12221
United Dependencies12221
MSState12221
Capitalist States Of Aleixo12221
Blisserena12221
Finmany12221
Carmea12221
Fashie12221
Kimian12221
Freycrest12221
Agartopia12221
Burlae12221
Jiggleyland12221
Gutreich12221
Jakeoiria12221
United socialist republic of Chuuk12221
Autonomous Columbia12221
Prosperity Village12221
Brucidia12221
Capitalem12221
United Marxist Unions12221
Lecadia12221
The Swadian Peoples12221
East Volusia12221
Adeiatic12221
Czech Bohemia and Moravia12221
Knootoss12221
Namsal12221
Narwhalslovakia12221
Cannula12221
Iscandia12221
New Latin States12221
Fascist State of Nuovoiork12221
German-Australia12221
The important thing to achieve, if voting reform is going to happen, is to reduce the difference in voting power of the "super delegates" like the GCRs and Europeia/10kI and mid-sized regions so that their stomps or stacks are (while not meaningless) more overcomeable.

User avatar
Nilla Wayfarers
Ambassador
 
Posts: 1223
Founded: Apr 04, 2015
Ex-Nation

Postby Nilla Wayfarers » Mon Nov 28, 2016 8:11 pm

Nessie wrote:
Nilla Wayfarers wrote:Then delegates would be looking to get exactly 75 endorsements, so their extra votes are as powerful as possible.
Having more than 75 endorsements would still get you more votes than just having 75. The marginal benefit is just lower.
Nilla Wayfarers wrote:Larger regions's delegates would have votes in the double digits, on top of the votes of the individual nations that endorse them. They'll still have considerable power.

  1. By my count exactly twenty delegates would have votes in the double digits, most of them just barely, and not all of them actually vote.
  2. The largest delegate in the game, the delegate of TNP, would have 37 votes, which sounds like a lot until you realize that they had to 1,638 WA nations (as of this post) into their region to reach that level. 37 is a drop in the bucket compared to 1638 individual votes. The delegate's bonus is beyond insignificant when examined in scale.
  3. Might be helpful to the discussion, the below table takes examines all of the votes (as of a few minutes ago) vote on the current SC resolution under the current voting system, the square root method, the marginal rate method, and the one nation - one vote method.
ENDOSCURRENT VOTING METHODSQUARE ROOT METHODMARGINAL RATE METHODONE NATION - ONE VOTE METHOD
Number of Nations Voting (No Del Bonus)N/A6,6316,6316,6316,631
Total Votes (Incl Del Bonus)N/A13,7207,95311,2256,631
Average Vote Per NationN/A2.0691.1991.6931
Total of DelegatesN/A7,6941,9275,199605
Individual NationsN/A6,0266,0266,0266,026
Aleisyr586587251521
Tsunamy488489231371
Big Bad Badger484485231371
Boltor448449221311
Mousebumples410411211251
Aelitia350351201161
Amerion20921015951
Neo Kervoskia19719815931
Solorni18018114911
Vancouvia15715814871
Libetarian Republics15615713871
Mikeswill10510611801
The Salaxalans969711781
Amsterwald949511781
Red Dusk II848510771
RunDown67689681
Blood Stained Inu57589581
Ivory Rhodes54558551
WikiPlay53548541
Amenembourg51528521
Imperial Eagle48498491
Ransium44458451
A Unified Earth42437431
Eldrahar42437431
Baconbacon12337387381
NewTexas36377371
Helaw35367361
Independent Federation of Croatia34357351
Adzdanads31327321
El Fiji Grande31327321
Vavax31327321
Indian Russia31327321
Trotskyish31327321
Ainin29306301
Avendonia27286281
Sciongrad27286281
The rouge Christmas state26276271
Albarusija26276271
Enclave of Soviet Germany25266261
Entgeistert25266261
Taprobana25266261
Ryanvillle24256251
Aetheirium24256251
Portugal and Brazil and Algarves24256251
Old Tellarian Empire23246241
Kitzerland22236231
Republic of Tacos22236231
Bathor22236231
Odinburgh20215211
Greater Banitia20215211
North Arkana19205201
Ten Cities19205201
Uqbaristan19205201
Bernie Nation18195191
Christian Democrats18195191
Neop17185181
The Cascadias17185181
Ancient Free and Accepted Masons17185181
Ciltyn17185181
Sangheilios II16175171
The Fatheland16175171
Arkotania16175171
New Nationale Einheit15165161
Beazlend15165161
Great Marsinia14155151
Secret dog14155151
The Stalker14155151
Pizza Farm13145141
Revitallia13145141
ScotlandSerenity13145141
Metcalfe13145141
Magthere12134131
Ariusgrad12134131
GABErial12134131
Xantha11124121
I THE GREAT PAPYRUS11124121
Lamebrainia11124121
United Christian10114111
United Furry Alliance10114111
Heliosy10114111
Ancian10114111
The Governments of Work10114111
Western Arab Empire10114111
Gotesbourg10114111
The Voltarum10114111
Chesion Isle10114111
Godly Archangels10114111
Lamoni10114111
Worsia10114111
Jakalu9104101
March of maedhros9104101
New Constitution of Lost Earth9104101
Grarrgtopia9104101
Ninjas-0079104101
Kitsco9104101
Serenarea89491
Universal Socialism89491
The Emerald Union89491
Socialist Cantons89491
Voik89491
United Nation Of Romnia89491
New Ethyos89491
Omniabstracta89491
Marxist Venezuela89491
Cagestan89491
Cats Love Marshmallows89491
Draconae89491
Latvian Spartopiee89491
The Interstellar Federation89491
Northern Nordia89491
Ochea89491
Reillysland89491
The Sovereign Kingdom of Immobilia89491
Wimbledonia78481
Katie May78481
Parakka Northland78481
Muzztopia78481
Clerigh Republic78481
Orcish States78481
The Crusade of Jerusalem78481
Luna the Savior78481
Ursus Moon Colony78481
Czechostan78481
Nerf Mellons78481
Merlinton78481
United States Of Devonta78481
Furbystan67371
The Ancient World67371
HMS Ravnabbor67371
Whaleopia67371
Voxin Cariba67371
Imperiil67371
Ovisia67371
Frenequesta67371
New Californiia67371
Lux Dominion67371
Catos67371
Gerryasomis67371
Geburtstag67371
New Velonia67371
Novak Croatia67371
Antartica5567371
Kingdom of Neph67371
FOniu67371
Arabian Kingdoms67371
Amalgia67371
The Central Shadow Nation67371
Pestan67371
United utrikite states67371
Jihadiya67371
Saint Irwin67371
The Manticoran Empire56361
Freiheidt56361
Newish Cambodia56361
Japrussia56361
Jean-Luc Picardia56361
Alstron56361
Krinchreich56361
The Fing Motherland56361
Ublana56361
Lacast56361
Aspergards56361
NewNorthWales56361
Mercedini56361
Nuak56361
Gellahn56361
Pokken-Land56361
Amberada56361
Wonderton56361
Razonica56361
Otaku Stratus56361
Herbandua56361
Turbltz56361
Mushcap56361
Walgreens56361
Laharao45351
Januostium45351
Parlmone45351
UIJ45351
PR Furlan45351
Olektopia45351
Kingdom of Heaven on Earth45351
Maracos45351
Golanchia45351
Riichi45351
Danubian Hungarian Republic45351
Demonvine45351
Liecthenbourg45351
Kalix45351
Winterpast45351
Kramoliun45351
Mhmmmm45351
New Yankdom45351
Vershina45351
Stratovar45351
Tykeen45351
Scrubation45351
Victores45351
Memes land 4 lyf45351
A Friend in Need45351
Retiva45351
Quortex Empire45351
Open Source Nation45351
Europe and Oceania45351
Gallade45351
Laissez Faire Republic45351
Adesiem45351
Communist Volkstrad45351
Willsylvania45351
TexJeeps45351
Ayme45351
Lunar Sectum45351
Palgaron45351
Hatay34341
Aclion34341
Spanish Micronesia34341
Zchoinia34341
Astrolinium34341
Pearie34341
Blanchland34341
Senyet34341
Idiot Moronistan34341
North Balvinchen34341
Beutarch34341
San Juan de Sinka34341
The Socialist Sovereignty of Veria34341
Holy Tedalonia34341
Irvane34341
Shepten34341
Jankhir34341
The Vegan Autonomous Zone34341
Kleinekatzen34341
Mighty Koslovia34341
Stormwrath34341
Brenneneth34341
Nucoclan34341
Yabudi34341
Planet Dolan34341
WindowsBunny34341
Mixolidian34341
Empire of Catalonia34341
Athrea34341
Eviarta34341
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The important thing to achieve, if voting reform is going to happen, is to reduce the difference in voting power of the "super delegates" like the GCRs and Europeia/10kI and mid-sized regions so that their stomps or stacks are (while not meaningless) more overcomeable.

In light of that beautifully arranged data, I'm revising my formula.
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The Anti-Social Socialists
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Postby The Anti-Social Socialists » Tue Nov 29, 2016 6:46 am

I tried a logarithmic approach to boost the power of less endorsed delegates, with respect to delegates of larger regions. This is what resulted using v=20log(x/(sqrt(2))+1

DelegateEndosVotes under logarithm
Aleisyr58653
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Amalgia614
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Postby Imperium Anglorum » Tue Nov 29, 2016 7:20 am

The Anti-Social Socialists wrote:
I tried a logarithmic approach to boost the power of less endorsed delegates, with respect to delegates of larger regions. This is what resulted using v=20log(x/(sqrt(2))+1

DelegateEndosVotes under logarithm
Aleisyr58653
Tsunamy48852
Big Bad Badger48452
RunDown6735
Amalgia614

This is the real electoral college.

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Postby The Blaatschapen » Tue Nov 29, 2016 7:43 am

The Anti-Social Socialists wrote:I tried a logarithmic approach to boost the power of less endorsed delegates, with respect to delegates of larger regions. This is what resulted using v=20log(x/(sqrt(2))+1

DelegateEndosVotes under logarithm
Aleisyr58653
Tsunamy48852
Big Bad Badger48452
RunDown6735
Amalgia614


Wait, from 6 endos to 14 votes?

That's not got going to happen.

A well organised group could spread itself out over several regions, maximise their endos and increase to well above their punching weight. After all, with 28 people, 4 times 1 delegate + 6 endos, you can have 4 * 14 = 56 votes. More than the one delegate with 586 endos.
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Ransium
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Postby Ransium » Tue Nov 29, 2016 8:04 am

I agree, any system which doesn't just decrease the power of having more votes but increases the power of having less votes is ripe for gaming. Might I suggest something like the US tax code where there are multiple tiers and a marginal decrease in the vote power at each tier. Maybe the first 10 votes count 100% the next 40 (votes 10-50) count 1 vote = 75% of a vote, the next 50 (50-100) count 1 vote equals 50%, and above that votes count 25%. The exact tier levels and percentages could obviously be adjusted. I'm on mobile so I can't write the equation for this out, but it is an extension of the marginal increase proposed on the last page.
Last edited by Ransium on Tue Nov 29, 2016 8:17 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Maljaratas
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Postby Maljaratas » Tue Nov 29, 2016 8:15 am

I definitely would support a change that would decrease the amount of votes a given delegate would get from x endorsements.

Number of votes under original square root system
1-2 Endorsements: 2 Votes Total
2-6 Endorsements: 3 Votes Total
7-12 Endorsements: 4 Votes Total
13-20 Endorsements: 5 Votes Total
21-30 Endorsements: 6 Votes Total
31-42 Endorsements: 7 Votes Total
43-57 Endorsements: 8 Votes Total
58-72 Endorsements: 9 Votes Total
73-90 Endorsements: 10 Votes Total
91-110 Endorsements: 11 Votes Total
111-132 Endorsements 12 Votes Total
133-156 Endorsements: 13 Votes Total
157-182 Endorsements: 14 Votes Total
183-210 Endorsements: 15 Votes Total
211-240 Endorsements: 16 Votes Total
241-306 Endorsements: 17 Votes Total
307-342 Endorsements: 18 Votes Total
343-380 Endorsements: 19 Votes Total
381-420 Endorsements: 20 Votes Total

And so on. Obviously I didn't get everything, but that was rather boring.

I would be partial to a system wherein 1-100 endorsements you get put under square root method, over 100 gets divided by 10 rounded up.


Also, is it possible that in order to get something changed, we agree to change the formula, before deciding what to change it to?
Last edited by Maljaratas on Tue Nov 29, 2016 8:16 am, edited 1 time in total.
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The Blaatschapen
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Postby The Blaatschapen » Tue Nov 29, 2016 8:28 am



It's related to my comment of politicising the formula.

From a tech point of view: It's hard to say that we're gonna change it, and not knowing what to change it to.
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Maljaratas
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Postby Maljaratas » Tue Nov 29, 2016 8:30 am

The Blaatschapen wrote:


It's related to my comment of politicising the formula.

From a tech point of view: It's hard to say that we're gonna change it, and not knowing what to change it to.

Well I suppose that's true.
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Postby Bananaistan » Tue Nov 29, 2016 12:26 pm

I wholeheartedly support doing something about the ridiculous voting power given to delegates. This looks good to me.
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Separatist Peoples
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Postby Separatist Peoples » Tue Nov 29, 2016 1:27 pm

The Blaatschapen wrote:
The Anti-Social Socialists wrote:I tried a logarithmic approach to boost the power of less endorsed delegates, with respect to delegates of larger regions. This is what resulted using v=20log(x/(sqrt(2))+1

DelegateEndosVotes under logarithm
Aleisyr58653
Tsunamy48852
Big Bad Badger48452
RunDown6735
Amalgia614


Wait, from 6 endos to 14 votes?

That's not got going to happen.

A well organised group could spread itself out over several regions, maximise their endos and increase to well above their punching weight. After all, with 28 people, 4 times 1 delegate + 6 endos, you can have 4 * 14 = 56 votes. More than the one delegate with 586 endos.

Wouldn't that then incentivize inter-regional voting strategy as opposed to intra-regional voting strategy? The power would shift to many small regions rather than one big one. Many small regions would be harder to control centrally with consistency.

I kinda like it.

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The Candy Of Bottles
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Postby The Candy Of Bottles » Tue Nov 29, 2016 2:09 pm

Looking at the delegate votes page for the current GA resolution shows Plembobria as having 1,265 votes. Under the formula currently in the OP, this becomes 213, after rounding up from 212.9. Much better.
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Postby Aclion » Tue Nov 29, 2016 2:21 pm

Nessie wrote:It seems like a really radical jump to me if we use the square root method suggested.. A delegate with 100 endorsements only gets 11 votes? That's a big delegate, there aren't many that large..

I Agree that it's a pretty severe cut. It's not that hard to create other formula's that are less severe though.

Topid wrote:If you want to play the strategy game join one of their regions

That's a horrible attitude.

The Blaatschapen wrote:The formula just might become political tool (which is perhaps not bad per se; but definitely something to consider whether it's wanted)

To an extent yes, but there is a legitimate gameplay aspect. If the formula is cut back too much it won't be worth it to build large regions with powerful delegate. Regions might set up systems where they use proxy regions to vote to avoid the severe diminishing return that comes with super-delegates.

Ideally I'd go for a formula that encourages people who aren't super-delegates(yes i know I'm using that wrong) to be involved in WA politics, but isn't so severe that it's worth the effort for large regions to game the system.
Last edited by Aclion on Tue Nov 29, 2016 2:24 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Postby The Blaatschapen » Tue Nov 29, 2016 2:59 pm

Separatist Peoples wrote:
The Blaatschapen wrote:
Wait, from 6 endos to 14 votes?

That's not got going to happen.

A well organised group could spread itself out over several regions, maximise their endos and increase to well above their punching weight. After all, with 28 people, 4 times 1 delegate + 6 endos, you can have 4 * 14 = 56 votes. More than the one delegate with 586 endos.

Wouldn't that then incentivize inter-regional voting strategy as opposed to intra-regional voting strategy? The power would shift to many small regions rather than one big one. Many small regions would be harder to control centrally with consistency.

I kinda like it.


Many of the big regions already have small regions(I'll call them colonies for now) for various purposes (eg. as a jumping point for R/D). Those colonies can be also used by the big region to spread their voting power a bit (after all, their active R/D part is not always completely 100% active with its whole force). I would not be surprised if some, especially in foundered UCRs, will divide their power to have more power.

Basically, the single region will then be intra-regional by itself. Through the use of colonies. 300 endos in the motherland, an assortiment of endos spread among the active part of their region in various colonies for more WA influence.

Sure, some of the colonies could dissent from the WA vote, once, because afterwards, whomever was in charge, gets internal repercussions. But that's playing a whole different game.
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The Anti-Social Socialists
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Postby The Anti-Social Socialists » Tue Nov 29, 2016 5:59 pm

The Blaatschapen wrote:
Separatist Peoples wrote:Wouldn't that then incentivize inter-regional voting strategy as opposed to intra-regional voting strategy? The power would shift to many small regions rather than one big one. Many small regions would be harder to control centrally with consistency.

I kinda like it.


Many of the big regions already have small regions(I'll call them colonies for now) for various purposes (eg. as a jumping point for R/D). Those colonies can be also used by the big region to spread their voting power a bit (after all, their active R/D part is not always completely 100% active with its whole force). I would not be surprised if some, especially in foundered UCRs, will divide their power to have more power.

Basically, the single region will then be intra-regional by itself. Through the use of colonies. 300 endos in the motherland, an assortiment of endos spread among the active part of their region in various colonies for more WA influence.

Sure, some of the colonies could dissent from the WA vote, once, because afterwards, whomever was in charge, gets internal repercussions. But that's playing a whole different game.

Eh, I was just looking at the logarithmic alternative as a counterbalance to larger regions. There's probably a way to tweak it so that delegates of smaller nations don't have the power boost that would provide the potential imbalance that you describe. I'll keep meddling with formulae on Desmos and see what happens!
It might, however, make the raiding game more interesting if larger regions were tempted to divide their power, thereby making each individual power source more vulnerable.
Last edited by The Anti-Social Socialists on Tue Nov 29, 2016 6:10 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Separatist Peoples
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Postby Separatist Peoples » Tue Nov 29, 2016 6:28 pm

The Blaatschapen wrote:
Separatist Peoples wrote:Wouldn't that then incentivize inter-regional voting strategy as opposed to intra-regional voting strategy? The power would shift to many small regions rather than one big one. Many small regions would be harder to control centrally with consistency.

I kinda like it.


Many of the big regions already have small regions(I'll call them colonies for now) for various purposes (eg. as a jumping point for R/D). Those colonies can be also used by the big region to spread their voting power a bit (after all, their active R/D part is not always completely 100% active with its whole force). I would not be surprised if some, especially in foundered UCRs, will divide their power to have more power.

Basically, the single region will then be intra-regional by itself. Through the use of colonies. 300 endos in the motherland, an assortiment of endos spread among the active part of their region in various colonies for more WA influence.

Sure, some of the colonies could dissent from the WA vote, once, because afterwards, whomever was in charge, gets internal repercussions. But that's playing a whole different game.

I can't help but feel that that, alongside managing a large region, would be difficult and would eventually lead to "independence", to extend the metaphor. They might all stay buddy-buddy, but managing that many external "colonies" and a large UCR over time would be very complicated.

Ultimately, I can't see it being terribly worse than the current system where one player has a thousand votes. If we aren't going to nix delegate votes entirely, this system promises to be kinda fun.

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Postby The Blaatschapen » Wed Nov 30, 2016 12:39 am

Separatist Peoples wrote:
The Blaatschapen wrote:
Many of the big regions already have small regions(I'll call them colonies for now) for various purposes (eg. as a jumping point for R/D). Those colonies can be also used by the big region to spread their voting power a bit (after all, their active R/D part is not always completely 100% active with its whole force). I would not be surprised if some, especially in foundered UCRs, will divide their power to have more power.

Basically, the single region will then be intra-regional by itself. Through the use of colonies. 300 endos in the motherland, an assortiment of endos spread among the active part of their region in various colonies for more WA influence.

Sure, some of the colonies could dissent from the WA vote, once, because afterwards, whomever was in charge, gets internal repercussions. But that's playing a whole different game.

I can't help but feel that that, alongside managing a large region, would be difficult and would eventually lead to "independence", to extend the metaphor. They might all stay buddy-buddy, but managing that many external "colonies" and a large UCR over time would be very complicated.

Ultimately, I can't see it being terribly worse than the current system where one player has a thousand votes. If we aren't going to nix delegate votes entirely, this system promises to be kinda fun.


Alright, let's agree to disagree :)

I've given my arguments about this particular topic (# of votes being higher than the # of endos), you've given yours. Admins can read back and evaluate both on their merits, when/if they're deciding on a reform of the WA delegate vote.
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The Anti-Social Socialists
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Postby The Anti-Social Socialists » Wed Nov 30, 2016 1:05 am

I tried the natural base (e) in the logarithm, to make differentiation nice as well.

So, using the formula v=6ln((x+1)/2)+x^(.64), we get a derivative of (6/(x+1))+.64x^-.36, and this results in a voting distribution of...

DelegateEndosVotes under formula
Aleisyr58693
Tsunamy48886
big Bad Badger48485
Boltor44882
The Salaxans9642
Ransium4430
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I tried to make a formula that boosted delegates of lower endorsement, but not so much that a delegate could have a voting power at double their endos over 3 endorsements, or over their endorsement level at slightly above the average (22 endos). I hope this is more balanced.
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Gruenberg
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Founded: Jul 18, 2005
Ex-Nation

Postby Gruenberg » Wed Nov 30, 2016 4:07 am

The Blaatschapen wrote:That's not got going to happen.

A well organised group could spread itself out over several regions, maximise their endos and increase to well above their punching weight. After all, with 28 people, 4 times 1 delegate + 6 endos, you can have 4 * 14 = 56 votes. More than the one delegate with 586 endos.

Which voting blocs active in the World Assembly do you think would use such a tactic?

A long time ago, there was a lot of scaremongering over a group of people from a big website, Fark or SomethingAwful, I think, joining the NSUN, forming lots of 2 endorsement regions, and getting deliberately bad proposals to quorum. They managed just one resolution - again from my terrible memory, it was something like a proposal about forced marriage written by an Islamist-themed nation - which promptly failed in a landslide, and then lost interest and gave up.

I've never seen WA resolution voting - especially GA resolutions - as big enough a priority for enough players in the game that they would form, or usefully, maintain, such blocs. Maybe a little more on the SC side of things (meaning yet again it's a great argument for a proper divorce!).
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Ever-Wandering Souls
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Founded: Jan 01, 2014
Father Knows Best State

Postby Ever-Wandering Souls » Wed Nov 30, 2016 11:13 am

You don't know blocs to get bad resolutions to quorum anymore - just $2 worth of stamps
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TG me anytime; I'm always happy to talk about anything!

The Alicorns (Equestria) wrote:Let them stay, no need to badmouth them...From our view a bunch of nations just came in, seized the delegate position, and changed a few superficial things...we play NationStates differently...there's really no reason for us to be butthurt.
http://www.nationstates.net/page=rmb/postid=8944227
http://www.nationstates.net/page=rmb/postid=8951258

Misley wrote:
Hobbesistan wrote:Don't think I understand the question.
The color or what?..

Jesus, Hobbes, it's 2015. You can't just call someone "the color".

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Nilla Wayfarers
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Founded: Apr 04, 2015
Ex-Nation

Postby Nilla Wayfarers » Wed Nov 30, 2016 11:18 am

Ever-Wandering Souls wrote:You don't know blocs to get bad resolutions to quorum anymore - just $2 worth of stamps

...What?
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Economic Left/Right: -4.63
Social Libertarian/Authoritarian: -5.54

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Drasnia
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Founded: Feb 02, 2012
Ex-Nation

Postby Drasnia » Wed Nov 30, 2016 11:21 am

Nilla Wayfarers wrote:
Ever-Wandering Souls wrote:You don't know blocs to get bad resolutions to quorum anymore - just $2 worth of stamps

...What?

Replace know with need. Probably that goldarned autocorrect again.
See You Space Cowboy...

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Ever-Wandering Souls
Negotiator
 
Posts: 7267
Founded: Jan 01, 2014
Father Knows Best State

Postby Ever-Wandering Souls » Wed Nov 30, 2016 11:24 am

Drasnia wrote:
Nilla Wayfarers wrote:...What?

Replace know with need. Probably that goldarned autocorrect again.


^ yeah that.

Point was that even as is, you could use a spread out force to do that in theory, but it's frankly more difficult than either hoping the "approve everything" culture works in your favor, or dropping $2 if it doesn't, Hence why you don't see it still happening.

Relevancy then is, unless there's a *massively significant* advantage, I can't see anyone going through the effort of establishing their military as delegate of a dozen regions in two or three-man groups for the sake of a dozen or two extra votes.
Last edited by Ever-Wandering Souls on Wed Nov 30, 2016 12:26 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Proud Raider; General of The Black Hawks, Ret.
TG me anytime; I'm always happy to talk about anything!

The Alicorns (Equestria) wrote:Let them stay, no need to badmouth them...From our view a bunch of nations just came in, seized the delegate position, and changed a few superficial things...we play NationStates differently...there's really no reason for us to be butthurt.
http://www.nationstates.net/page=rmb/postid=8944227
http://www.nationstates.net/page=rmb/postid=8951258

Misley wrote:
Hobbesistan wrote:Don't think I understand the question.
The color or what?..

Jesus, Hobbes, it's 2015. You can't just call someone "the color".

Reploid Productions wrote:Raiders are endlessly creative

How Do I Telegram API?

Omnis delenda est.

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Leppikania
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Posts: 2332
Founded: Apr 13, 2015
Left-wing Utopia

Postby Leppikania » Wed Nov 30, 2016 11:28 am

Ever-Wandering Souls wrote:You don't need blocs to get bad resolutions to quorum anymore - just $2 worth of stamps

For example: how this utter garbage got to quorum.
INTP, -4.25 Economic Left/Right, -4.1 Social Libertarian/Authoritarian, tastes like chicken.
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Nilla Wayfarers
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Posts: 1223
Founded: Apr 04, 2015
Ex-Nation

Postby Nilla Wayfarers » Wed Nov 30, 2016 12:41 pm

Ever-Wandering Souls wrote:
Drasnia wrote:Replace know with need. Probably that goldarned autocorrect again.


^ yeah that.

Point was that even as is, you could use a spread out force to do that in theory, but it's frankly more difficult than either hoping the "approve everything" culture works in your favor, or dropping $2 if it doesn't, Hence why you don't see it still happening.

Relevancy then is, unless there's a *massively significant* advantage, I can't see anyone going through the effort of establishing their military as delegate of a dozen regions in two or three-man groups for the sake of a dozen or two extra votes.

Okay, that makes sense.
Our country is the world--our countrymen are mankind.
WA Delegate for Liberationists (Ambassador Oscar Mondelez).

For: good things
Against: bad things

Economic Left/Right: -4.63
Social Libertarian/Authoritarian: -5.54

Want to make the WA more democratic? Show your support here.
The Greatest GA Resolution Author Ever wrote:Due to more of the Econmy using computers instead of Paper The Manufactoring for paper prducts shpuld decrease because were wasting rescources on paper ad more paper is being thrown in the trash

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