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[Canton Empire]

deleted

[Reploid Productions]

Okay, unfortunately, there are some issues with this tool that are unclear and need to be clarified before we can give this the go-ahead to be linked on-site, and until these matters are clarified, we cannot permit links based on what we've found so far. I believe one of my colleagues has already sent a Voice of Mod message requesting some clarifications, but for the sake of transparency and ease of information for users, I figure it's easier to put the full set of questions out here in the open.

1. How do users obtain these "Units"? The site is not very clear on this.
   
2. What information is being asked on transactions? I am told it asks for personal information (address and the like) on "Checkout."
   
3. Does this tool in any way require use of any manner of real-world currency OR cryptocurrency?
   
4. One seller appears to be accepting these "Units" in exchange for doing people's homework, and it does not appear to be at all in-character, but offering IRL services. This is especially dodgy if true.
   
5. Another appears to be offering to illegal obtain "any game out there" in exchange for Units. This runs afoul of our rule about "warez" if true.
   
6. Yet another, Cybernomix, apparently is claiming to be offering what appears to be meant as IRL tax prep services, which runs afoul of the "no advertising" and may be of dubious IRL legal standing as well.

The reason I have to ask these things is because if it's "in character" and just pretend money/information, it looks "real store" enough to be concerning, especially as we have had users flirting with the notion of trying to use real money to buy favors and such from other users in the past. And if it's requiring users submit personal information, we can not in good conscience allow such a tool to be promoted on-site.

EDIT TO ADD: Preferably, we'd like to hear from Cybernomix directly, since they're the one running the thing.


~Evil Forum Empress Rep Prod the Ninja Admin
~She who wields the Banhammer; master of the mighty moderation no-dachi Kiritateru Teikoku

[Cybernomix]

Okay, unfortunately, there are some issues with this tool that are unclear and need to be clarified before we can give this the go-ahead to be linked on-site, and until these matters are clarified, we cannot permit links based on what we've found so far. I believe one of my colleagues has already sent a Voice of Mod message requesting some clarifications, but for the sake of transparency and ease of information for users, I figure it's easier to put the full set of questions out here in the open.

Yup. Perfectly understandable. If you do happen to see anything wrong, I will be happy to make the necessary changes to reach full compliance of your TOU.

1. How do users obtain these "Units"? The site is not very clear on this.

NS Bank acts like a central bank. So it is the initial source of units. i.e. initally created through thin air.

However, NS Bank rarely actually lends much. Which is why the units obtained nowadays are simply retraded from one Nation to another for whatever is being traded (raids, etc.)

So naturally, prices will fall aka deflation as has happened. Part of the excitement of NS Bank is observing real-life economic phenomena happening with fake currency. Interesting stuff.

What information is being asked on transactions? I am told it asks for personal information (address and the like) on "Checkout."

Transactions do not ask for personal info. It's just the login and that is for the user's personal use password retrieval purposes.

Does this tool in any way require use of any manner of real-world currency OR cryptocurrency?

Nope. The "unit" is my personal invention and has never existed in any other context other than Nationstates

One seller appears to be accepting these "Units" in exchange for doing people's homework, and it does not appear to be at all in-character, but offering IRL services. This is especially dodgy if true.

Umm... you got this backward. We are GP-ing here and have never implied it to be anything else. The whole point of NS Bank is to add the whole financial aspect of politics (which is really the bottom line) into our gameplay, as opposed to those forums that pretend to engage in trade but really have no effect on regional controls.

Many regions have been "bought" "sold" and mercenaries have raided other regions for units.

In any case, I moderate NS Bank, so if that is an issue I can easily take it down.

Another appears to be offering to illegal obtain "any game out there" in exchange for Units. This runs afoul of our rule about "warez" if true.

Yes I was aware of your Warez rule so let me reassure you. I do not provide actual copyrighted material whatsoever. I simply offer public domain files, and these have always been legal. It's similar to youtube in a way, it's just a means to share files (vids in this case). That's all it is. And there is mostly Warez on youtube, yet youtube is within site rules - asssuming the video is not porn or gory - because me posting a link to youtube doesn't imply that I uploaded the Warez or downloaded it.

If you will reread my ad, I explicitly mentioned what each package contains, none of which contain the game itself. Just downloader, cheat codes, and other fun stuff

Also mods and cheats are non-copyrighted so those aren't Warez anyways.

Yet another, Cybernomix, apparently is claiming to be offering what appears to be meant as IRL tax prep services, which runs afoul of the "no advertising" and may be of dubious IRL legal standing as well.

1. I am not claiming to be a CPA, and this would be illegal. Any 18yo in his parent's basement can legally offer to do your taxes (ya you'd be crazy to hire him but still legal). I know what I'm getting myself into dude. moving on from another unfounded implication of illegallity.... -_-

2. "Advertising sites unrelated to NationStates is not permitted. <snip> Advertisements for websites/forums directly related to Nationstates are allowed." NS Bank is not an advertising site, and it is directly related to NS. And my post on the marketplace is an offer directly related to an in-game currency used by USS and Kaiserreich which it says is allowed.

If Macdonald's posted its logo and link to mcdonald.com and asked for 5 USD per burger THAT would be advertising. They would be using it for reasons completely irrelevant to NS.

My offers are explicitly FOR NS and only for that purpose of making the game work. I don't have an accounting firm I am advertising, and I make no real money here neither in real life. This is all in-game affairs.

The reason I have to ask these things is because if it's "in character" and just pretend money/information, it looks "real store" enough to be concerning, especially as we have had users flirting with the notion of trying to use real money to buy favors and such from other users in the past.

Understood. That is NOT what is happening here. Pure game and for fun.

And if it's requiring users submit personal information, we can not in good conscience allow such a tool to be promoted on-site.

If you have a problem with the login info upon registration, I can delete it. It would take me 5.2 seconds.

Actually I'll go right ahead and do it now. I'll keep you posted in a few minutes.

EDIT: Done. No such info is asked. Let me know if there is anything else I can do!

[Cybernomix]

I also just want to add, I did check up on the laws before starting NS Bank.

It's my *** on the line too. I have a strong enough incentive to keep things legal as it is LOL

As for your TOU, I have already removed the information request upon login. If there is anything else lemme know.

[Cybernomix]

Hello,

The software makers of Cyclos which hosts NS Bank have contacted me for info.

This was my reply:

1. It is illegal to call yourself a CPA or CA or any other protected title. But the service of accountancy is not restricted to such title-holders. So this accusation is utter nonsense from start to finish. As for tax preparation services, you need to have a PTIN if you earn money in exchange for preparing a client's taxes. However, we are not asking for any kind of real-money compensation, and our currency (units) is used for in-game purposes. Thus, no PTIN is required.

See: http://www.irs.gov/Tax-Professionals/Fr ... -a-PTIN%3F

"A PTIN must be obtained by all enrolled agents, as well as all tax return preparers who are compensated for preparing, or assisting in the preparation of, all or substantially all of any U.S. federal tax return, claim for refund, or other tax form submitted to the IRS"

2. No Warez is being distributed whatsoever. They provide links to link-sharing websites, which are legal. On these link-sharing websites there are external sources to file-sharing websites, which may or may not include the sharing of Warez (just like on youtube, facebook, tumblr, or any other website with file-share capabilities). The service provider does not download, upload, or distribute any file at all. It is equivalent to posting a youtube link which contains a copyrighted video like a movie trailer or music video; the posting or sharing of the link is not illegal.

3. Exam cheats are not offered. No plagiarism is offered whatsoever. We only offer to do non-graded work, such as homeworks and assignments. This is kinda like tutoring which is not illegal. "

[Frisbeeteria]

Cybernomix, you appear to be defending your actions as pertains to US law. This is an international website, and additionally we have our own ruleset.

1. If you are offering RL tax services for in-game benefits, even if it's only RP participation in your bank, that counts as compensation to us per site rules. Your PTIN argument is irrelevant. (Both Reploid Productions and I work in tax offices and have PTINs, so we're not just shooting in the dark here.)
2. While link-sharing as you describe may prevent prosecution, we're not interested in hosting links to it. As far as site rules concerned, linking to a site that provides links to warez is the same as linking directly, regardless rules-lawyering evasions.
3. We have a specific prohibition of "homework help" threads in General, which applies to the rest of the site as well. "Not illegal" is not the same as "permitted".

In short, if you have to work this hard to attempt to prove you're not breaking the law or the rules, you probably shouldn't be doing it on our site.

[Cybernomix]

Cybernomix, you appear to be defending your actions as pertains to US law. This is an international website, and additionally we have our own ruleset.

1. If you are offering RL tax services for in-game benefits, even if it's only RP participation in your bank, that counts as compensation to us per site rules. Your PTIN argument is irrelevant. (Both Reploid Productions and I work in tax offices and have PTINs, so we're not just shooting in the dark here.)
2. While link-sharing as you describe may prevent prosecution, we're not interested in hosting links to it. As far as site rules concerned, linking to a site that provides links to warez is the same as linking directly, regardless rules-lawyering evasions.
3. We have a specific prohibition of "homework help" threads in General, which applies to the rest of the site as well. "Not illegal" is not the same as "permitted".

In short, if you have to work this hard to attempt to prove you're not breaking the law or the rules, you probably shouldn't be doing it on our site.

Hello

I got a reply from them asking me to comply with their terms.

I have already edited the advertisements that you mentioned. and then I asked them "Please, confirm whether this complies with your terms. Thank you again and sorry for the inconvenience."

They just said it is ok.

---

There is officially no tax-prep, school related stuff, and no warez or warez links being offered whatsoever.

Thanks for helping me comply with your site rules guys, (I'm not a lawyer).

Is this satisfactory now? If so, I'll appreciate it if the links were returned

[Reploid Productions]

Apologies for the delay, we're still trying to wrangle the team to go over the information available so far.

[Cybernomix]

Apologies for the delay, we're still trying to wrangle the team to go over the information available so far.

Oh geez, I should be sorry!

I really appreciate the time you're taking in helping me out in complying with the site rules. I know you have a life!

Didn't mean to enable rule-breaking, I just wanted to add the government-finance / economics aspect of politics into gameplay. Since, politics kinda has a lot to do about money... didn't make sense to me to play a mock-politics game without the finance aspect... so I figured why complain to you guys to add that, when I could do it myself? I'd be saving you time and all your other users gets to use it if they want.

It really wouldn't make a difference in terms of practicality whether you add it to your site or simply keep it as an external link

Anyhow, cheers

[Cybernomix]

Update: The home page no longer mentions anything about tax prep or school stuff!

As for the games, it will only be public domain, like mmo or multiplayer games. I.e. hosting the lobby for that particular game

[Canton Empire]

I will be updating this soon, in sorry for lack of clarity

[Reploid Productions]

After an extensive moderation investigation spanning the past year, the moderation team decided to declare Murder Corp/Cybernomix Delete-On-Sight. We discovered that Cybernomix is working to monetize its NS Bank project for personal financial gain. It is explicitly stated in the One Stop Rules Shop that personal moneymaking ventures are a no-go. On top of that there are highly questionable legal issues regarding various tax laws and income reporting in the RL countries involved.

We hereby inform everyone that from now on "NS Bank" is a prohibited link due to the same reasons, along with the previously expressed concerns about buying homework, games of dubious legality, and IRL tax/financial advice. Ironically, those latter concerns were supposedly "addressed" by Cybernomix by "warning" Cybernomix's own puppet nation Murder Corp. We have already made an effort to remove all instances of the NS Bank link from the site, but anyone who still has one in their region's WFE, in dispatches, in forum sigs or posts, etc, is encouraged to remove it as soon as possible.

Given the serious nature of the problems with this offsite, users caught actively attempting to continue promoting it will face immediate deletion.


~Evil Forum Empress Rep Prod the Ninja Admin
~She who wields the Banhammer; master of the mighty moderation no-dachi Kiritateru Teikoku

[Minoa]

Given the serious nature of the problems with this offsite, users caught actively attempting to continue promoting it will face immediate deletion.

Would this not affect wiki commentary about NS Bank and the moderator response to it?

(Not to worry, we’ve ratified the link ban.)