Refactoring (was: Refactor preview)

[[violet]]

I don't want that one fixed. It's awesome! A frightening non-existent economy.

Apparently, running your economy according to the principles of anarchism screws up the calculations.



There are also incongruities on the national description (main page), which are amusing to read.

Wow! That is a heck of a nation. I wish I had seen this earlier; it's a great outlier test case.

[[violet]]

Is it possible for me to have access to the formulas used to calculate the numbers found here and here? Thank you.

Which numbers exactly?

[Jinwoy]

Is it possible for me to have access to the formulas used to calculate the numbers found here and here? Thank you.

Which numbers exactly?

All of them would be nice

[Seraven]

What is the nation? It'll be easier for the techies to investigate if they can check into the specific example in question.

I often like keeping my identities somewhat separate, but a few people already know this is my nation.

http://www.nationstates.net/nation=christian_anarchists/detail=economy

It wouldn't be difficult to guess.

If attacked, easy target.

[Malessere]

I have a problem my nation Malessere and my nation Arzenejev are in the top 10% for the world for Largest Public Sector (Arzenejev is in the top 10% and malessere is in the top 5%) but in the two nations the tax is "unheard of" if this is correct, ok i don't say nothing, but i think is very strange.

Those trophies are only updated during a World Census. Have those categories run since refactoring?

HUM! Sorry but i don't remember i have too many trophies
When the refactoring starting i watch what was change, the tax disappear, some industrial category go down, but i read the topic and i see is normal (I admin i don't controll the largest public sector). And 4 days ago appears the notice "was ranked in the Top 5% of the world for Largest Public Sector" but now i don't have tax... I think is strange. But i repeat if this is normal and correct for me is OK.

[Bears Armed]

Before the refactoring, 'Spirituality' was listed as being amongst the preferences of this nation's leader but with no money (that the survey could see) spent by the government on that subject or on anything else.
After the refactoring, the calculator has viewed the Bears' general preference for small government as enough to over-ride their support for several categories of spending that they did support (from means that the survey wasn't assessing...), including Spirtuality.

Before the re-factoring this nation had a ["deservedly"] high ranking for 'Most Devout', being ranked 5'031st in the world with a 'Paradise-Perdition Likelihood Rating' of 49 on the most recent occasion before today for which I have the data recorded (which was 04th August 2014).
Today, the nation's recalculated ranking for 'Most Devout' was 111'426th in the world, with a 'Paradise-Perdition Likelihood Rating' of -87.
Seriously? That looks like one hell of a drop for the removal of what was supposedly (according to the official stats) non-existent spending!

(Not that I really regard govenment spending on the subject as necessarily llikely to be an accurate measure of a national population's Spirituality on the first paw, though...)

[Bari]

Is it possible for me to have access to the formulas used to calculate the numbers found here and here? Thank you.

Which numbers exactly?

I was primarily concerned with main government expenditure, the GDP and the information on income. However, it would be nice to see how the expenditure is divvied up and also to see how the economy's constituents are calculated.

[The Grendels]

Massive fluctuations, in world rankings for Wysterians, for a short term comparison between December 15th and now. Galicia-Volhynia, Equus, and Ummagumma were the really strange jumps, back and forth.

Nak nak 1st, Koffee 2nd (+1), the Centauri 3rd (-1), Isla Vista 8th, Sdaeriji 9h (+2), Wulfhelm 11th (+20), Tremalkier 13th (+1), Complete Bastards 14th (-7), the Captain 23rd (+10), the Zocalo 24th (+3).

The Bruce 32nd (+63), Mackintosh 43rd (+5), Grendels 47th (-27), Miratejo 49th (-5), Cosmovania 55th (-27), Marldeep 57th (+2), Dienes 67th, Go Canucks Go 112th (+34), Caphtoria 170th (-20), Wars Forever 198th (+19).

Dub Dizzle 211th (-14), the Comedian 249th (+36), Live to Ride 377th (+65), HotRodia II 389th (+302), Keyser Soze 418th (+163), Ummagumma 454th (from too far back to keep track of), Equus 534th (+780), Zamberdaf 968th (-2), Galicia-Volhynia 1011th (-755), Pelusia 1149th (+85).

[Sedgistan]

Which numbers exactly?

All of them would be nice

That's not going to happen. The majority of the measures and their values are kept secret, and deliberately so.

[MicroGlup]

I am really p*ssed. Spent years building up my "least devout" score; spent over a year in the 8th least devout slot and finally got up to 7th - stayed there for several months being absolutely consistent in my gameplay to build on my score - and what happens - I drop 25 places overnight!

How on earth can that possibly be correct?

[Bari]

All of them would be nice

That's not going to happen. The majority of the measures and their values are kept secret, and deliberately so.

I demand the answers! The FOIA enables me to do so!

[Bari]

I am really p*ssed. Spent years building up my "least devout" score; spent over a year in the 8th least devout slot and finally got up to 7th - stayed there for several months being absolutely consistent in my gameplay to build on my score - and what happens - I drop 25 places overnight!

How on earth can that possibly be correct?

God finally reached MicroGlup, I guess.

[Annakha]

My tax rate dropped considerably something like 30% to 9%

But I had a pretty robust military before and now it's gone.

[[violet]]

Massive fluctuations, in world rankings for Wysterians, for a short term comparison between December 15th and now. Galicia-Volhynia, Equus, and Ummagumma were the really strange jumps, back and forth.

Nak nak 1st, Koffee 2nd (+1), the Centauri 3rd (-1), Isla Vista 8th, Sdaeriji 9h (+2), Wulfhelm 11th (+20), Tremalkier 13th (+1), Complete Bastards 14th (-7), the Captain 23rd (+10), the Zocalo 24th (+3).

The Bruce 32nd (+63), Mackintosh 43rd (+5), Grendels 47th (-27), Miratejo 49th (-5), Cosmovania 55th (-27), Marldeep 57th (+2), Dienes 67th, Go Canucks Go 112th (+34), Caphtoria 170th (-20), Wars Forever 198th (+19).

Dub Dizzle 211th (-14), the Comedian 249th (+36), Live to Ride 377th (+65), HotRodia II 389th (+302), Keyser Soze 418th (+163), Ummagumma 454th (from too far back to keep track of), Equus 534th (+780), Zamberdaf 968th (-2), Galicia-Volhynia 1011th (-755), Pelusia 1149th (+85).

I am interested in feedback from Wysteria, because you guys pay so much attention to this, and track it well. But I'm not sure which World Census scale you're referring to. Also, do you regard the newer rankings as more accurate or less?

[[violet]]

Before the re-factoring this nation had a ["deservedly"] high ranking for 'Most Devout', being ranked 5'031st in the world with a 'Paradise-Perdition Likelihood Rating' of 49 on the most recent occasion before today for which I have the data recorded (which was 04th August 2014).
Today, the nation's recalculated ranking for 'Most Devout' was 111'426th in the world, with a 'Paradise-Perdition Likelihood Rating' of -87.

Mmm, that ranking has problems. I'll fix the most obvious one (ignoring support for New Age and Catholic religions, and opposition to atheism), but there's another bias towards big government I'll have to come back to.

[The Grendels]

Massive fluctuations, in world rankings for Wysterians, for a short term comparison between December 15th and now. Galicia-Volhynia, Equus, and Ummagumma were the really strange jumps, back and forth.

Nak nak 1st, Koffee 2nd (+1), the Centauri 3rd (-1), Isla Vista 8th, Sdaeriji 9h (+2), Wulfhelm 11th (+2), Tremalkier 13th (+1), Complete Bastards 14th (-7), the Captain 23rd (+10), the Zocalo 24th (+3).

The Bruce 32nd (+63), Mackintosh 43rd (+5), Grendels 47th (-27), Miratejo 49th (-5), Cosmovania 55th (-27), Marldeep 57th (+2), Dienes 67th, Go Canucks Go 112th (+34), Caphtoria 170th (-20), Wars Forever 198th (+19).

Dub Dizzle 211th (-14), the Comedian 249th (+36), Live to Ride 377th (+65), HotRodia II 389th (+302), Keyser Soze 418th (+163), Ummagumma 454th (from too far back to keep track of), Equus 534th (+780), Zamberdaf 968th (-2), Galicia-Volhynia 1011th (-755), Pelusia 1149th (+85).

I am interested in feedback from Wysteria, because you guys pay so much attention to this, and track it well. But I'm not sure which World Census scale you're referring to. Also, do you regard the newer rankings as more accurate or less?

The numbers +/- above were changes in the world rankings by nations in Wysteria (ranked 1-30 in the region), for the Auto Industry between December 15th to January 30th. Normally, this would have very little fluctuation in world ranks below or near 100, but increasing fluctuations as world rankings extend towards 1000 in the world standings.

A lot of nations don't seem to have been overly impacted, but some have been hit really hard, making me wonder if some have been affected by a bug. The Grendels got savaged pretty badly. I was working my way back up the ranks in the auto industry, but instead dropped 27 ranks in the world standings. For a month and a half of time, you'd expect a 20th ranked nation to go up or down a couple ranks in the world standings, but not down 27, if they're answering issues in favour of that industry. Meanwhile, the Bruce, who go heavy in the auto industry but much less so other industries made a massive jump forward. Jumping forward 63 world ranks in the below 100 range is the equivalent of going up from 1000 to 250 in the world standings. This would normally only occur after a very significant die off of dozens of highly ranked nations.

With Galicia-Volhynia, I would only expect that dramatic a drop in the world standings if they outlawed the automobile industry 5 times during that month and a half. Equus on the other hand hasn't answered issues for many years, but moved up 780 ranks. HotRodia II zipped up the standings after only answering 3 issues in the last 90+ days shown in their national happenings, leapfrogging over up and coming Keyser Soze who have until now been far ahead of them as an up and coming economic monster. That and Ummagumma's huge jump forward were the big aberrations in Wysteria that I tracked.

Note: typo occurred in market report for Wulfhelm. That should read "+2", not "+20" for their advancement in the world rankings during this time gap.

[Nephmir]

I have a problem my nation Malessere and my nation Arzenejev are in the top 10% for the world for Largest Public Sector (Arzenejev is in the top 10% and malessere is in the top 5%) but in the two nations the tax is "unheard of" if this is correct, ok i don't say nothing, but i think is very strange.

Those trophies are only updated during a World Census. Have those categories run since refactoring?

Perhaps it would be a good idea to have all census rankings appear without repeating one time around, to redo all the census rankings after the refactoring?

[The Dark Star Republic]

Those trophies are only updated during a World Census. Have those categories run since refactoring?

Perhaps it would be a good idea to have all census rankings appear without repeating one time around, to redo all the census rankings after the refactoring?

Even as a one-off, I don't like the idea of non-random World Census Reports. The randomness keeps people from gaming the system. Obviously the refactoring is going to cause some major changes in World Census Reports for some nations, but what's the hurry?

[Nephmir]

Perhaps it would be a good idea to have all census rankings appear without repeating one time around, to redo all the census rankings after the refactoring?

Even as a one-off, I don't like the idea of non-random World Census Reports. The randomness keeps people from gaming the system. Obviously the refactoring is going to cause some major changes in World Census Reports for some nations, but what's the hurry?

It can still be random, I meant avoiding duplicating, as in the same census won't show up again until all the other censuses have been randomly cycled through.

[[violet]]

A lot of nations don't seem to have been overly impacted, but some have been hit really hard, making me wonder if some have been affected by a bug. The Grendels got savaged pretty badly. I was working my way back up the ranks in the auto industry, but instead dropped 27 ranks in the world standings. For a month and a half of time, you'd expect a 20th ranked nation to go up or down a couple ranks in the world standings, but not down 27, if they're answering issues in favour of that industry. Meanwhile, the Bruce, who go heavy in the auto industry but much less so other industries made a massive jump forward. Jumping forward 63 world ranks in the below 100 range is the equivalent of going up from 1000 to 250 in the world standings. This would normally only occur after a very significant die off of dozens of highly ranked nations.

The main reason for the change is actually hinted at on nation pages. Compare:

The frighteningly efficient The Grendelsian economy, worth an astonishing 22,900 trillion Golden Bonds a year, is driven almost entirely by the private sector, which is broadly diversified and led by the Arms Manufacturing industry, with major contributions from Information Technology, Uranium Mining, and Book Publishing.

... vs:

The frighteningly efficient The Brucean economy, worth a remarkable 9,227 trillion Kopins a year, is driven almost entirely by the private sector, which is quite specialized and led by the Automobile Manufacturing industry, with major contributions from Book Publishing, Information Technology, and Tourism.

When it comes to calculating industry size, the game draws on two main stats: your support for that particular industry, and your support for industry in general. In the Grendels, the latter number is enormous; one of the biggest in the game. In the Bruce, it's actually slightly negative. When it comes to the auto industry specifically, though, it's almost the opposite: the Bruce has an extremely high number, while the Grendels' is nothing special... it's actually your second least-favored, ahead of only Basket Weaving.

What this means is that the Grendels has been passing legislation broadly in favor of industry, but doing no special favors for the auto industry. The Bruce, on the other hand, hasn't been supporting a broad industrial base, but has been consistently favorable to auto in particular.

Before refactoring, these two factors were weighted evenly. After refactoring, less weight is given to the broad stat, and more to the specific one. So the Grendels slides in world rankings while the Bruce rises.

In terms of GDP, which is what I'm thinking of switching the Analysis rankings over to show, the Auto industry comprises about 4% of the Grendels' GDP, and about 28% of the Bruce's. So although the Grendels' GDP is more than twice the size of the Bruce's, the Bruce's auto industry is bigger.

[The Grendels]

When it comes to calculating industry size, the game draws on two main stats: your support for that particular industry, and your support for industry in general. In the Grendels, the latter number is enormous; one of the biggest in the game. In the Bruce, it's actually slightly negative. When it comes to the auto industry specifically, though, it's almost the opposite: the Bruce has an extremely high number, while the Grendels' is nothing special... it's actually your second least-favored, ahead of only Basket Weaving.

I had a screen slip (from upgraded NS issue banners) result in me clicking on the wrong option on one issue, six months ago, undoing over 12 years of dominance in the auto industry. >

[[violet]]

I had a screen slip (from upgraded NS issue banners) result in me clicking on the wrong option on one issue, six months ago, undoing over 12 years of dominance in the auto industry. >

I hear General Motors did something similar.

[Infected Mushroom]

For the first sentence my country is apparently known for ''frequent executions'' and a ''surprisingly youthful workforce.''

Yet I'm not sure how that came about. I don't think I've ever legalised the death penalty or child labor in any Issues.

I've never seen those texts pre-refactor. Do you know what causes them?

[Sanctaria]

Yet I'm not sure how that came about. I don't think I've ever legalised the death penalty or child labor in any Issues.

Interesting. I've checked and it does appear that your nation does not have child labour set as legal.

You do, however, have capital punishment legalised.

[Infected Mushroom]

Yet I'm not sure how that came about. I don't think I've ever legalised the death penalty or child labor in any Issues.

Interesting. I've checked and it does appear that your nation does not have child labour set as legal.

You do, however, have capital punishment legalised.

I see...

is it a glitch?

Also, is capital punishment legal by default or can it only be legal because at some point in the past I've answered an issue making it so?