Refactoring (was: Refactor preview)

[Ice cold]

Hello I was wondering would the industry size scale be added to the analyze screen and would the current government size scale in the anlayze screen be replaced with the new scale in the refactoring tool? Because I find that the government and industry size scales on the refactoring tool have better digits than the current ones on the analyze screen and why in my industries in the analyze screen it shows single digit numbers while in the refactoring it shows I have 600+ industry. Plus how does it say that I have 5.2% public sector and my public industry is 0%

[Bears Armed]

Okay, I'm sure I'm missing something obvious, but...

My government size is increasing by 65.5%.
My industry size is increasing by 1509%.
I'm going from a government that is 6.25 times the size of my industry to one that is only 68.5% the size of my industry.
The size of my public sector is dropping from 86.6% to 43.6%.

So my industry is absolutely exploding, my public sector is shrinking, and the size of my government in relation to the size of my industry is shrinking by a fairly massive amount... yet my tax rate is rising from 24% to 56%. Shouldn't that go down? More industry and less government (in the very least by comparison to one another), what am I missing?

Contracting-out public services (hence the public sector shrinking) to private enterprise? Actual government subsidies for private industry?

[Athretvari]

We can start tracking the portion of industry that is state-owned, which is particularly relevant to socialist economies.

--from Max Berry's post in the News section decribing some details of the refactoring.

I was curious if you could expand on this.

Will we be able to see how much of a particular industry the govt controls versus private?

Will we be able to get this info via the national xml shards? (If not, could I put in a humble request?)

[United Dependencies]

This is interesting. I'm going from a high income tax and almost no private industry to a low income tax and a whole hell of a lot of private industry.

It's a little out of balance for my taste, but it gives me a chance to start answering issues the way I want to again instead of having to try and pick all the free market decisions to bring the size of government down.

[Luna Amore]

Err Violet,

Just looked myself up, and not much difference from before.

Out of interest I looked up Salusa - I think HIS stats have been a bit too regiggerated perhaps? One of them is at 15% but the preview indicates it'll be cranked up to 100%!

Bug perhaps? I know Salusa is among the ancient nations but I didn't expect that big a jump...

The refactor looks correct. Salusa has outlawed private enterprise. His public sector size and publicly owned industry should be 100%.

[1st Kramia]

Government size +47%
Industry size, uh, -105% (Not sure if using the math like that was right - I'm calculating relative to a negative value here, thus the final result is actually positive. Basically, my new Industry size is 5% of the old, but with switched sign. So I guess the -105% sort of make sense.)
Public Sector -36.8%
Taxes: +1%

Admin: -40%
Edu: -22.5%
Env: -13%
Health: -5%
Industry: +∞%*
Aid: +∞%*
Law: +∞%*
Transport: +81%
Social: -16%
Spirituality: +∞%
Welfare: -7%*

(*Note, these are percent changes of percent, not flat changes, thus anything that previously was 0%, if it has now become visible, it must have increased by ∞% %)

However, if I take out the four new (∞%) sectors, the changes of the remaining sectors are:

Admin:-30.5%
Edu: -9.4%
Env: +1.8%
Health: +10.6%
Transport: +111.8%
Social: -2.1%
Welfare: +8.4%

So in conclusion I'd say my state has become quite a bit more efficient with all the money it earns (and it earns quite a bit - apparently even more than it used to) and with the refactored budget, transportation features heck of a lot more than it did before.
Education and Social Policy both have lost a bit (but not by that insane amounts. Can be dealt with.) while for Environment, Healthcare and Welfare, it depends on the viewpoint: Arguably they have actually gained a bit (though also not all that much)

So my biggest changes appear to be Industry size, Government size, Public Sector size,and the Public Transport budget.
All in all I think the new values reflect much closer what decisions I made. I also like the diversification. I'm curious whether this will also change the fact that, currently, my "almost wholly made up of enterprising ten-year-olds selling lemonade on the sidewalk, although the government is looking at stamping this out." - my Industry size is positive now, after all, and also, my Industry spending actually exists. By the same token, my private sector must have grown by the new calculation.

Good change overall.

[Gallade]

Quick question - my tax rate is set to plummet from 68% to 0%, despite a sizeable increase in government size. Is industry size (which will be almost ten times larger than the government size) doing this or is it a bug?

[Luna Amore]

Quick question - my tax rate is set to plummet from 68% to 0%, despite a sizeable increase in government size. Is industry size (which will be almost ten times larger than the government size) doing this or is it a bug?

Working as intended:

I suppose I'm misunderstanding what "Industry" means. I understood it to mean something like gross manufacturing capacity or gross domestic product, and so to pay for a government ten times smaller, one would need to take a slice of one tenth in taxes, roughly.

Oh, right. No, that's broadly accurate. It's muddled a bit by the fact that NS directly tracks only "income tax," and is less scientific about all other sources of government revenue, including corporate tax. Also we do a few things like consider how anti-tax you are; governments in nations that are anti-tax are allowed to find ways to scrape by, and deliver the same services at lower income tax rates than tax-happy nations. But yes, your national potential GDP is equivalent to the sum of your Government Size and Industry Size; when the former is larger, income taxes will be higher.

[Gallade]

Quick question - my tax rate is set to plummet from 68% to 0%, despite a sizeable increase in government size. Is industry size (which will be almost ten times larger than the government size) doing this or is it a bug?

Working as intended:

Oh, right. No, that's broadly accurate. It's muddled a bit by the fact that NS directly tracks only "income tax," and is less scientific about all other sources of government revenue, including corporate tax. Also we do a few things like consider how anti-tax you are; governments in nations that are anti-tax are allowed to find ways to scrape by, and deliver the same services at lower income tax rates than tax-happy nations. But yes, your national potential GDP is equivalent to the sum of your Government Size and Industry Size; when the former is larger, income taxes will be higher.

Aha, thank you.

[StarArmy]

Jeez, the pie chart looked good but this thing is making my taxes skyrocket. They will increase by more than 50%, from 41% to 63% it says. And my gov size will increase by over 400%. I'm not sure what to suggest to make things better, but I wanted to at least say something. I'm not feeling very good about this change.

[46566]

Government size 694 2,047
Industry size 11,835 19,846.4
Publicly owned industry ? 0%
Public Sector size 6.8% 9.3%
Income tax 85% 0%

This has probably been asked before but how do i drop 85% in taxes? While my government nearly triples and my industry nearly doubles?

[The Tribunic Empire]

Hello.

My publicly owned industry goes from "?" to "100%".

Also my public sector size goes from "66.5%" to "100%", completely squashing the private sector.

Either the formula before was completely wrong for my nation or this is an unintended effect.

[The Phone]

sectors that I've been working constantly on for nine years

Oh, are you talking about a different nation? This one has only ever answered ten issues.

Yes, I'm talking about my main nation whose 'View Your Post' page I don't want clogged up by non-RP threads, so thus posting here on ye olde puppet.

[Perrytopia]

Color me impressed... Although I'm surprised that my private sector nearly doubled and that my income tax rates get slashed in half. What was exactly "restructured" in my nation that caused this? Was it because of my "frightening" economy and haphazard privatization of certain areas and sectors? I've noticed that my government spending distribution effectively remains the same as well.

[Senyosu]

My puppet Imyoji did not see much change... But Senyosu turned into Singapore with that low tax rate (~49% to 8%).

Yes.

I like this.

[Northern Arcadian Empire]

I like this, especially that high tax break I got, but I have one question. I was looking at the results of the Refactor and i noticed my government size has gone down or has disappeared like my spending on spirituality, will this effect my stuff on the analyst? Also, right now I spend some money on international aid, why will that disappear?

[Luna Amore]

Oh, are you talking about a different nation? This one has only ever answered ten issues.

Yes, I'm talking about my main nation whose 'View Your Post' page I don't want clogged up by non-RP threads, so thus posting here on ye olde puppet.

Could you at least post the name of the nation in question?

[Gallifrey Trenzalore]

My questions about my own changes were answered in reading through all of the previous posts. I just want to add a notion for some folks...

Many people seem to be asking how they can have expenditures on something that is completely outlawed (Spirituality or International Aid for examples). My thought on that is that it costs something to suppress or oppose things too. So religion may be illegal, but if you spend nothing on it then it could begin to sneak its way back in.

[Pandect]

So far my potential changes look to make my recent decisions apply far more accurately. And since I choose my answers based on core beliefs and not on trying to "fix" the system, there's very little change that is unexpected. I'm loving these new refactored stats; especially as a ton of people are now going to reap the actual consequences of all those decisions they previously made. Perhaps people will think more carefully next time they have an issue.

[[violet]]

my tax rate is set to plummet from 68% to 0%, despite a sizeable increase in government size.

This has probably been asked before but how do i drop 85% in taxes? While my government nearly triples and my industry nearly doubles?

Either the formula before was completely wrong for my nation or this is an unintended effect.

Refactoring aims to correct bad/inconsistent results in the current model. So don't expect the new numbers to be just like the old numbers, only all slightly larger or smaller. Instead, if one of the old numbers was buggy, it will be very different.

[[violet]]

I like it. Negative government was is bit, um...how would that even work?

Internally, we use a negative number to measure how opposed you are to public spending even after abolishing the government. So two nations with government size of 0 and -1,000 both have no government, but the latter also really, really hates the idea.

The problem with the current model, though, is there's a bad canceling-out effect that can happen, causing nations to have a lower total government size (or total industry size) value than they should. This occurs when the nation is very supportive of some areas and very opposed to others.

[[violet]]

In all honesty though, I'm wondering how my taxes jumped from 56% to 96%.

The main reason is that you've outlawed private enterprise.

[[violet]]

I think I'm a weird corner case. Please check, because my refactored stats are very strange. But then, for some time now I've had the odd situation where I'm spending quite a bit on Healthcare (and always choose pro-Healthcare issue choices), and yet in Analysis my Public Healthcare is extremely negative. And a few other weird things like that... so this strange refactoring is probably related.

Yes, this is a good example of a nation that has problems under the current model. You are strongly opposed to government bloat and broad, unfocused public spending, but supportive of targeted programs. Today, you see inconsistent results from your Government Expenditure chart compared to Analysis, e.g. you see Healthcare as positive in the chart but negative in Analysis.

Under refactoring, they will both say the same thing: that your support for Healthcare isn't enough to overcome your wider opposition to government spending. (Only Education and Industry are able to do that.) This is because you've done something like this: answered a Health issue positively, then responded to an issue on the Arts by cutting subsidies to "all special interest groups." Some of that flows back to Health, reducing spending again.

[[violet]]

Jeez, the pie chart looked good but this thing is making my taxes skyrocket. They will increase by more than 50%, from 41% to 63% it says. And my gov size will increase by over 400%. I'm not sure what to suggest to make things better, but I wanted to at least say something. I'm not feeling very good about this change.

Currently your nation is getting a lot of undue credit for being extremely opposed to government spending on Spirituality. Under refactoring, that goes away, and what you have is a nation that's 40% government. So yes, taxes are reasonably high in that situation. But your numbers aren't huge, and you can change things a lot with issues.

[[violet]]

Hello I was wondering would the industry size scale be added to the analyze screen and would the current government size scale in the anlayze screen be replaced with the new scale in the refactoring tool?

I'll have a look at that after refactoring, yes.

Plus how does it say that I have 5.2% public sector and my public industry is 0%

"Publicly owned industry: 0%" means your nation doesn't run any state-owned companies, such as a timber logging companies or miners. The government just governs. "Public sector: 5.2%" means that your government makes up only 5.2% of the total economy, i.e. it is very small compared to the size of private industry.