Limit the number of puppets allowed per user?

[Afforess]

I'm sick of the rise of puppet regions where one or two people create hundreds of puppet nations just to elevate themselves into the top 20 nations by population list, with no real reason or other purpose. It is an eyesore, increases the noise in the happenings in feeders, and is a drain on the computing resources for the game. There is no good reason any user needs more than 10 or 20 puppets. Having hundreds or even thousands is absurd and should not be tolerated.

I'm surprised raiders haven't decided to intentionally create a region with 50000 puppet nations just to attempt to crash the game during an update. I'm sure something of the sort will be attempted eventually. Maybe I will just to prove my point. (This is sarcasm/extreme hyperbole, not meant to be taken literally...)

Edit:
Oh look here, apparently puppet flooding is already against the rules:

Puppet Flooding: Any player or group of players creating large numbers of puppets for the purpose of spamming and/or annoying a region, be they invaders, defenders, or natives, may find all such puppets ... and their main nations ... deleted without warning as Regional Happenings spammers.

Can we get the puppet-only spam regions deleted now?

[Spartzerium]

I'm surprised raiders haven't decided to intentionally create a region with 50000 puppet nations just to attempt to crash the game during an update. I'm sure something of the sort will be attempted eventually. Maybe I will just to prove my point.

Attempting to crash the game doesn't sound like a very wise idea to me. Seems like the kind of thing that could get you in trouble... and that may be why it hasn't been attempted by raiders.

[Afforess]

I'm surprised raiders haven't decided to intentionally create a region with 50000 puppet nations just to attempt to crash the game during an update. I'm sure something of the sort will be attempted eventually. Maybe I will just to prove my point.

Attempting to crash the game doesn't sound like a very wise idea to me. Seems like the kind of thing that could get you in trouble... and that may be why it hasn't been attempted by raiders.

You have plausible deniability, or least, someone else would. There are no rules on the number of nations a player may create, nor any rules on how big a region may be. So creating a 100000 nation region is perfectly fine. Could even advertise it as a record-setting event or some such nonsense. That's how plausible deniability works.

[Nullarni]

You have plausible deniability, or least, someone else would.

No, you don't. You may think using puppets makes you anonymous, but it doesn't. The site admin knows your IP even if you use another name.

[Libertarian California]

No. I like having 20+ puppets.

[Neo Arcad]

Sorry, but what you've got here are raiders AND defenders telling you that you're wrong. That means you're wrong.

[New haven america]

I happen to like my puppets, so no.

[Johto and Kanto]

I have about 8-10, soon to be more.
I try to distribute them evenly across regions, with only about 3 or 4 in my home region.
Its not a problem, as long as there aren't multiple puppets in the WA.

[Albioney]

I actually make puppets simply for the fun of the game. I have an extremely environmentalist one, I have a communist one, I have a super religious one, and many of different kinds of governments. I know some people use them to make regions bigger, or for raiding, but I don't really think that puppets are that big of a problem.

[The Electoral College]

Puppets serve purposes outside the arena of raider/defender as well.

[Australian rePublic]

Assuming you're implying that something should be done to stop people from having too many puppets, the only way you could do that is to regulate how many nations an IP address can have. My issue with that is public computers. If you put a limit on the amount of nations an IP address can have, how will many people use NS from a public computer.
(This is also why I am against IP address bans, but that's a different issue)
My other issue is with private computers, if there is more than one person who uses the private computer (say for example a household or family), each user may want 20 puppets each

[Afforess]

You have plausible deniability, or least, someone else would.

No, you don't. You may think using puppets makes you anonymous, but it doesn't. The site admin knows your IP even if you use another name.

So you agree with me, someone else would have plausible deniability. I obviously don't, as I stated, and you quoted.

No. I like having 20+ puppets.

Obviously "like" does not fall under the "good reason" catagory.

Sorry, but what you've got here are raiders AND defenders telling you that you're wrong. That means you're wrong.

I think someone needs to brush up on logic. Your conclusion is absurd.

I actually make puppets simply for the fun of the game. I have an extremely environmentalist one, I have a communist one, I have a super religious one, and many of different kinds of governments. I know some people use them to make regions bigger, or for raiding, but I don't really think that puppets are that big of a problem.

Sure, I have puppets too. I am not universally against having 1, or even a dozen. It's when one person has 100's or 1000's that I think it begins to become absurd.

Assuming you're implying that something should be done to stop people from having too many puppets, the only way you could do that is to regulate how many nations an IP address can have. My issue with that is public computers. If you put a limit on the amount of nations an IP address can have, how will many people use NS from a public computer.
(This is also why I am against IP address bans, but that's a different issue)
My other issue is with private computers, if there is more than one person who uses the private computer (say for example a household or family), each user may want 20 puppets each

The FAQ states that NationStates uses 4 different methods to detect users, not just IP addresses alone. If it was just IP addresses, WA multing would be easy.

[The North Polish Union]

When I was the Foreign Affairs Minister for my region, I had to have about 30 puppets (although most of them have CTE'D by now). It was necessary to do the job.

Also, think how this would hurt groups like Antifa, who have refounded hundreds of regions.

[The Orson Empire]

If you don't like the way the game is played, then don't play the game. Don't try to ruin it for others.

[Afforess]

If you don't like the way the game is played, then don't play the game. Don't try to ruin it for others.

I have to wonder if you actually read anything I wrote. Would you be happy if I brought 1000 puppet nations into your region?

[Luziyca]

No, because puppets are useful for other purposes like RPing. The only way THAT could happen is if we said "oh, this nation goes to this," and that technology is likely NEVER going to be implemented.

Thus, I suggest turning this piece of tripe into a Meal Rejected by Ethiopians.

[Sondstead]

Sorry, but what you've got here are raiders AND defenders telling you that you're wrong. That means you're wrong.

Implying NS revolves around raiding and defending.

[Afforess]

Oh look here, apparently puppet flooding is already against the rules:

Puppet Flooding: Any player or group of players creating large numbers of puppets for the purpose of spamming and/or annoying a region, be they invaders, defenders, or natives, may find all such puppets ... and their main nations ... deleted without warning as Regional Happenings spammers.

Can we get the puppet-only spam regions deleted now?

[Luziyca]

Oh look here, apparently puppet flooding is already against the rules:

Puppet Flooding: Any player or group of players creating large numbers of puppets for the purpose of spamming and/or annoying a region, be they invaders, defenders, or natives, may find all such puppets ... and their main nations ... deleted without warning as Regional Happenings spammers.

Can we get the puppet-only spam regions deleted now?

Every time you imply puppet-only regions are spam, Lanos gets glomped with a Meal Rejected by Ethiopians. Please don't glomp him with MREs.

[Frisbeeteria]

I'd be in favor of puppet restrictions. I'd like to see people logging in to a master account, where they can instantly switch between their 20-50 puppets without the bother of a password. However, since that ain't gonna happen without a major rewrite of the game code, it's not really practical. Also, it would presumably be easy enough to create multiple master accounts, so it's kinda moot as to whether this would reduce puppet flooding and mass puppeteers.

Also, think how this would hurt groups like Antifa, who have refounded hundreds of regions.

To me, that's an argument FOR restricting puppets. One player shouldn't control hundreds of locked regions.

the only way you could do that is to regulate how many nations an IP address can have. (This is also why I am against IP address bans, but that's a different issue)

No, it's not the only way. Clever code can do a lot more than you think it can, and mods are capable of distinguishing between public and private IP addresses. It's certainly not a deal breaker.

[Afforess]

Oh look here, apparently puppet flooding is already against the rules:



Can we get the puppet-only spam regions deleted now?

Every time you imply puppet-only regions are spam, Lanos gets glomped with a Meal Rejected by Ethiopians. Please don't glomp him with MREs.

They are spam. They distract new users and players from finding legitimate regions that they can join. They clutter the list of regions, adding no value to the game. That sounds like spam to me.

I'd be in favor of puppet restrictions. I'd like to see people logging in to a master account, where they can instantly switch between their 20-50 puppets without the bother of a password. However, since that ain't gonna happen without a major rewrite of the game code, it's not really practical. Also, it would presumably be easy enough to create multiple master accounts, so it's kinda moot as to whether this would reduce puppet flooding and mass puppeteers.

Also, think how this would hurt groups like Antifa, who have refounded hundreds of regions.

To me, that's an argument FOR restricting puppets. One player shouldn't control hundreds of locked regions.

the only way you could do that is to regulate how many nations an IP address can have. (This is also why I am against IP address bans, but that's a different issue)

No, it's not the only way. Clever code can do a lot more than you think it can, and mods are capable of distinguishing between public and private IP addresses. It's certainly not a deal breaker.

Wow. I find myself in complete agreement with a game moderator. Mark your calendars folks.

[Luziyca]

Every time you imply puppet-only regions are spam, Lanos gets glomped with a Meal Rejected by Ethiopians. Please don't glomp him with MREs.

They are spam. They distract new users and players from finding legitimate regions that they can join. They clutter the list of regions, adding no value to the game. That sounds like spam to me.

The mods definition of spam is likely different than yours. Hell, there is a damn tag for these little buggers: Puppet Storage.

[Afforess]

They are spam. They distract new users and players from finding legitimate regions that they can join. They clutter the list of regions, adding no value to the game. That sounds like spam to me.

The mods definition of spam is likely different than yours. Hell, there is a damn tag for these little buggers: Puppet Storage.

Great, that makes it even easier for the mods to wipe them all out.

[Australian rePublic]

I'd be in favor of puppet restrictions. I'd like to see people logging in to a master account, where they can instantly switch between their 20-50 puppets without the bother of a password. However, since that ain't gonna happen without a major rewrite of the game code, it's not really practical. Also, it would presumably be easy enough to create multiple master accounts, so it's kinda moot as to whether this would reduce puppet flooding and mass puppeteers.

Also, think how this would hurt groups like Antifa, who have refounded hundreds of regions.

To me, that's an argument FOR restricting puppets. One player shouldn't control hundreds of locked regions.

the only way you could do that is to regulate how many nations an IP address can have. (This is also why I am against IP address bans, but that's a different issue)

No, it's not the only way. Clever code can do a lot more than you think it can, and mods are capable of distinguishing between public and private IP addresses. It's certainly not a deal breaker.

Really (about private and public IP addresses) Okay. I am also in favour of the master account and have been asking for that since my first nation (Kalasparata), it makes sence why we can't do that now. My other issue with a puppet limit is allowing puppets to die and restoration

[The Republic of Lanos]

It would be a hell of a lot easier if NS was datebase-based instead of its current configuration but since we're not...