[SUBMITTED 30.3.16] Do You Want to Build a Show, Man?

[Candlewhisper Archive]

Name:

Do You Want to Build a Show, Man?

Description:

Worldwide, large scale carnivals give a major boost to the tourist economy, and citizens are petitioning you to consider something similar for your nation.

Validity:

Has a capital city

Options:

[option]"You wanna build a show, man!" sings Anna, an excitable party-lover, "Now to avoid clashes with other regional festivals let's hold it in winter: an awesome snow carnival! Imagine people from all over cuddling over hot cocoa, ice rinks, snow-themed carnival floats.. Once a year the big city becomes fun central!"
[effect]the season of pneumonia and rising heating bills is seen as cause for celebration
[stats]tourism increases a lot, cheerfulness increases, culture increases, inclusiveness increases, industry: retail incereases, industry: beverage sales increases, economy increases, charmlessness decreases, political apathy increases, youth rebelliousness increases, compliance decreases, law and order spending increases, law enforcement decreases, recreational drug use increases, crime increases, ignorance increases, eco-friendliness decreases, nudity increases,

[option]"Go away, Anna!" yells her older sister irritably. "We don't want people all over our city, making a mess and a noise. In fact, we want to keep people out, and lower our profile as a travel destination to keep undesirable sorts away. The carnival...? Let it go!"
[effect]footloose dancers are banned from having a good time
[stats]social conservatism increases, tourism decreases, safety increases, charmlessness increases,

[option]"Sure, a winter carnival sounds good," says local musician Olaf Thessnoman, "but let's also have one in summer. Actually, let's just make the capital into an all year round party! Daily fun-fests, 24-hour opening times on bars and clubs, great music... Let the party never end!"
[effect]city traffic is brought to a halt by party-goers dancing in the street
[stats]charmlessness increases, tourism increases, industry: beverage sales increase a lot, industry: retail increases a little, all other industries decrease, compliance decreases a lot, eco-friendliness decreases a lot, economic growth decreases, ideological radicality increases, intelligence decreases,

Name:

Do You Want to Build a Show, Man?

Description:

Worldwide, large scale carnivals give a major boost to the tourist economy, and citizens are petitioning you to consider a winter carnival for your nation.

Validity:

Has a capital city

Options:

[option]"You wanna build a show, man!" sings Anna, an excitable party-lover, "We could have a snow carnival, it'll be awesome! All the cultures of the country and the world in one place, themed carnival floats, outdoor ice rinks, dancing in the street! Do it once a year in the big city, and make @@CAPITAL@@ into fun central!"
[effect]during the annual carnival fortnight over 75% of the population is dead drunk
[stats]tourism increases a lot, cheerfulness increases, culture increases, inclusiveness increases, industry: retail incereases, industry: beverage sales increases, economy increases, charmlessness decreases, political apathy increases, youth rebelliousness increases, compliance decreases, law and order spending increases, law enforcement decreases, recreational drug use increases, crime increases, ignorance increases, eco-friendliness decreases, nudity increases,

[option]"Go away, Anna!" yells her sister irritably. "We don't want people all over our city, making a mess and making a noise. In fact, what we want is to keep people out, and lower our profile as a tourist destination to keep undesirable sorts from our door. Conceal, don't feel you need a show."
[effect]@@CAPITAL@@ had the opportunity to be a carnival city but let it go
[stats]social conservatism increases, tourism decreases, safety increases, charmlessness increases,

[option]"Sure, winter carnival sounds good," says bar owner Olaf Thessnoman, "but let's also have one in summer . Actually, lets just make the city into an all year round party destination!"
[effect]city roads are permanently congested with carnival floats
[stats]charmlessness increases, tourism increases, industry: beverage sales increase a lot, all other industries decrease, compliance decreases a lot, eco-friendliness decreases a lot, economic growth decreases a lot, ideological radicality increases, intelligence decreases, culture increases,

[Trotterdam]

[option]"You wanna build a show, man!" sings Anna, an excitable party-lover, "We could have a snow carnival, it'll be awesome! All the cultures of the country and the world in one place, themed carnival floats, outdoor ice rinks, dancing in the street! Do it once a year in the big city, and make @@CAPITAL@@ into fun central!"

[option]"Go away, Anna!" yells her sister irritably. "We don't want people all over our city, making a mess and making a noise. In fact, what we want is to keep people out, and lower our profile as a tourist destination to keep undesirable sorts from our door. Conceal, don't feel you need a show."

[option]"Sure, winter carnival sounds good," says local bar owner Olaf Thessnoman, "but let's also have one in summer . Actually, lets just make the city into an all year round party destination!"

Absolutely none of these mention alcohol. (Well, the third speaker is a bar owner, but even he doesn't try to sell any.)

It's possible to have fun without being drunk. (Easier, probably, or at least you're more likely to still remember how much fun you had the next day.)

Therefore, this is completely out of whack with the rest of the issue:

Not valid if nation has banned or doesn't allow sale of alcohol (59.3, 185.2, 185.3., 227.6, 284.4, 434.4,)

[effect]during the annual carnival fortnight over 75% of the population is dead drunk

[effect]@@CAPITAL@@ had the opportunity to be a carnival city but let it go

You really need to work on punchier effect lines.

In this case, remember that issue effects should entail actually doing something, not just keeping things the way they are. In this case, I would expect a line about the nation banning all forms of public celebrations.

I would also expect there to be some kind of economic argument against publically-organized carnivals ("waste of money" rather than "I hate parties").

[Candlewhisper Archive]

You don't like the "let it go"?

That was one of my favourite effect lines to date.

[Candlewhisper Archive]

Re: alcohol, its certainly possible to have a carnival in a nation where alcohol is banned, but I also wanted the effect line in option 1 to make sense, plus as you say, option 2 is a bar-owner. I could make it so that only option 3 is valid for those without alcohol, but what would be the point in that?

I could also rejig it so that the whole issue can be presented in the absence of alcohol, but then I thought "why?". Validity criteria are invisible, after all. No-one will ever know they're not getting the issue because they're abstinent, or getting it because they're not.

[Gnejs]

I've been forced to watch that movie an unspeakable number of times. I involuntarily sing those songs to myself while I work, seriously.

I think this is hilarious; 'let it go' especially.

[Trotterdam]

You don't like the "let it go"?

Oh, was it a reference to something I'm not familiar with?

No, I don't.

Re: alcohol, its certainly possible to have a carnival in a nation where alcohol is banned, but I also wanted the effect line in option 1 to make sense,

Thing is, though, it still doesn't. Validity aside, it's not very fair to have the main effect of a nation trying to have "themed carnival floats, outdoor ice rinks, dancing in the street" be everyone suddenly getting drunk without warning. The same applies to nations where alcohol isn't actually illegal but is still discouraged. (#227 offers two approaches to trying to reduce alcohol consumption without outright banning it.)

I could also rejig it so that the whole issue can be presented in the absence of alcohol, but then I thought "why?". Validity criteria are invisible, after all. No-one will ever know they're not getting the issue because they're abstinent, or getting it because they're not.

It's not about whether anyone notices, it's about fewer nations being able to enjoy the issue. It's not fun to be unable to get an issue your nation for something that would otherwise be interesting in your nation due to a technically. It's even less fun if you spend months waiting for it, not realizing that you'll never get it because of that invisible technicality that isn't sufficiently hinted at.

I am, admittedly, thinking of my own nation. We're a pony nation, so I gotta follow Pinkie Pie's example here. We love parties, but the catering generally features a lot more cupcakes than alcohol.

If you actually want a parties=alcohol issue, make it the point of the issue, such as giving options for the nation to deliberately try to distract people from alcohol by wowing them with other forms of entertainment, or conversely encouraging everyone to get drunk because it's cheaper than keeping them happy in healthier ways.

[Candlewhisper Archive]

Ok, ok, all alcohol references excised.

In return, you must go watch Frozen. Go, watch it now.

You like MLP, you will like Frozen. Trust me.

[Lychgate]

Too many references. The first was okay, the second was pushing it, the third is just mayhem. Eliminate some and expand the original description.

[Orocdon]

Great issue, however I think the puns and references will confuse a lot of people. I would recommend adding a just a few hints that the issue is referencing "Frozen".

[Gnejs]

Great issue, however I think the puns and references will confuse a lot of people. I would recommend adding a just a few hints that the issue is referencing "Frozen".

Don't you think having a character named 'Olaf Thessnoman' is a sufficient hint?

[Leppikania]

Great issue, however I think the puns and references will confuse a lot of people. I would recommend adding a just a few hints that the issue is referencing "Frozen".

Don't you think having a character named 'Olaf Thessnoman' is a sufficient hint?

...and the speaker in option 1 is Anna...

[The Brand New Salvatagard Republic]

Ok? Welcome back Frozen. So the World needs a Global Capital?

[Candlewhisper Archive]

Well I don't know what to say. Too many Frozen references says one person, not obviously enough Frozen says another.

I think I'm inclined to keep it as it is.

[Trotterdam]

Ok, ok, all alcohol references excised.

In return, you must go watch Frozen. Go, watch it now.

You like MLP, you will like Frozen. Trust me.

Somehow, I doubt a Disney movie has a lot more alcohol in it than My Little Pony.

Well I don't know what to say. Too many Frozen references says one person, not obviously enough Frozen says another.

I think I'm inclined to keep it as it is.

My advice on references is that an issue should never stand on them alone. You can include in-jokes to amuse people who get the reference, but they should be done in such a way that people who don't get the reference won't find themselves scratching their heads wondering what you're talking about or why they should care.

Even, say, Mesozoic Park is perfectly understandable without having seen Jurassic Park, and doesn't actually reference it that heavily beyond the basic concept of cloning dinosaurs.

Using a name like "Anna" is fine in this regard, since people who recognize the reference will go "oh look, that Anna!" and smile, but people who don't recognize the reference won't mind because Anna is a perfectly reasonable name and it's used somewhere it makes sense to have a name, and there's even a justification for using a nonrandom name since she's referenced twice. But the "let it go" effect line just looks like bad writing to anyone who doesn't recognize the reference, and so you should... let it go.

I'm also wondering about the "Conceal, don't feel you need a show." line, which seems like iffy grammar to me. Who actually uses "conceal" like that?

Effect line 1 isn't as bad as effect line 2, but even while the basic message is okay (people having enough fun that they don't mind the cold), the wording seems a little forced.

[Candlewhisper Archive]

Incidentally, I'm just curious: comparing this issue to "the Queen in Yellow?"

I note on tist issue you've not liked the references made repeatedly to a single thing: "let it go", "the cold doesn't bother me anyway", "conceal don't feel", "olaf the snow man" and indeed "do you want to build a snowman?" are all admittedly references that would mean nothing to someone who is unaware of Frozen.

Yet I notice no comments about the Queen in Yellow, where someone unfamiliar with the Cthulu Mythos would likely miss all references to "Ia! Ia! Cthulu fhtagn", the King in Yellow, the "terrible angles", the yellow sign or "Shoggoth on the roof".

Is the difference that you get the references in that one?

In my view, the fun someone who gets the references receives is worth the slight blandness of the issue to someone who doesn't. Generally speaking I don't so issues where all the options are based around reference to a single piece of material, but I personally think there's nothing wrong with this sort of thing occasionally. Basically its the joy of the in-joke. If you know its there, its a fun thing, and if you don't know it's there, you've not realised you've missed anything anyway.

[Trotterdam]

Yet I notice no comments about the Queen in Yellow, where someone unfamiliar with the Cthulu Mythos would likely miss all references to "Ia! Ia! Cthulu fhtagn", the King in Yellow, the "terrible angles", the yellow sign or "Shoggoth on the roof".

Is the difference that you get the references in that one?

Maybe, though that doesn't mean it's fine, just that I personally am in less good of a position to point out its flaws.

A probably more relevant factor is that I'm just less interested in that issue in general, as I kind of hinted with my first comment in that thread. The whole "Argh, something mildly disconcerting? GO INSANE!" thing is way overblown. People's minds aren't that weak. And when you recognize that, there's only one option that makes sense, making the issue pointless.

The references are also more fundamentally necessary there. Without familiarity with Lovecraft's work the very concept of the issue is nearly inexplicably ridiculous (granted, it did also remind me of a few other things like real-life archeological artifacts rumored to be cursed, or the superstitions around Shakespeare's MacBeth, but still), while carnivals still make sense without being familiar with Frozen.

So I didn't say much about that draft not because it isn't flawed, but because its flaws are inherent enough to not be worth my effort trying to fix. I only pointed out that one spelling error because it was so obvious that I might as well.

I should, perhaps, note that even when it comes to references I do recognize, I'm not guaranteed to like them if done clumsily. Forced memes are annoying, even if the meme may have been funny once. (I could point out examples from My Little Pony, but nobody has tried making a NationStates issue about those yet.)

Naturally, of course, my opinions are my own. I cannot vouch for how many other people agree with me, either out of the general player population or the issue editors, but this is how I feel.

[Candlewhisper Archive]

Good points, good points. I always value your feedback of course.

On this one, as a non-Frozen...ite (uh not sure if there's a proper term for a Frozen fan), is it just that the issue lacks humour, or are there structural / narrative flaws from your POV?

[Trotterdam]

On this one, as a non-Frozen...ite (uh not sure if there's a proper term for a Frozen fan), is it just that the issue lacks humour, or are there structural / narrative flaws from your POV?

I think I've established the problem already: awkward grammar that doesn't feel like how people would normally speak if they're not quoting a song (I'm going out on a limb and guessing it's a song), and effect lines that do a rather bland job of explaining what's going on (option 2 sounds too much like just dismissing the issue rather than doing something, option 1 isn't as bad but still feels out-of-nowhere since nothing in the issue says why the cold doesn't bother them, or, if it is indeed so non-bothersome, why you'd mention it so prominently).

I would recommend trying more to allude to themes from the movie rather than quoting lines from it verbatim.

Maybe also add a little in-character justification why it's specifically a winter carnival being proposed (do they attract more tourists than summer carnivals? does the nation already have a summer carnival and want to add a second one?), although that's not too big a deal since ultimately issues have to assume something, and this is the kind of minor detail that, unless you really emphasize specific consequences of the carnival being in winter in the options, many players will happily mentally replace for roleplay.

I don't think the issue itself is bad. Throwing a carnival to attract tourists and improve the economy seems like a thing governments would do, and being grumpy and hating all those foreigners flooding the place and making a racket is also a position people would have. Option 3 is currently the shortest, so maybe it can be expanded to hint better at why it's not just "option 1 but more".

Oh, and a couple of typos I should point out:

[option]"Sure, winter carnival sounds good," says bar owner Olaf Thessnoman, "but let's also have one in summer . Actually, lets just make the city into an all year round party destination!"

First underline has a space that shouldn't be there, second underline is missing an apostrophe.

[Candlewhisper Archive]

Ok option 1's effect has lost the Frozen references. May revisit it again to find some different humour.

I think Let It Go has to stay though. Its the signature tune of the movie, and fans will really enjoy the reference.

[Candlewhisper Archive]

Ok, I've moved let it go into the character's speech, where it seems more natural.

Effect lines 2 and 3 are now 80s movie references, but flow more naturally, I think.
Effect line 1 isn't a reference, but rather a sardonic observation.

Descriptions and words all tweaked a little.

How does it look?

[Trotterdam]

Better.

"Now if we don't want to clash with other festivals in the region, we should have it in winter:"

This is going to get funny once the issue proliferates to the players and half the nations in the region select that option...

[option]"Go away, Anna!" yells her sister irritably. "We don't want people all over our city, making a mess and making a noise. In fact, what we want is to keep people out, and lower our profile as a tourist destination to keep undesirable sorts away. Close the doors to @@NAME@@, and the carnival...? Let it go!"

Question: would it clash with the film's context to move the quote to the beginning, as "Let it go, Anna!"? It's not like her sister is trying to make Anna physically go somewhere else.

[Candlewhisper Archive]

Hmmm... it wouldn't hurt the "Let It Go", though it would hurt the "Go Away, Anna!", which is another famous film quote I'm afraid.

Does it jar badly, as I can change it if it does?

[Trotterdam]

The "go away" doesn't bother me, but the "let it go" still feels tacked-on as a forced restatement of a point she's already made. But I can't think of any other suggestions. I guess it's not that bad.

Does anyone else have anything to say? It's been just the two of us for the past ten posts.

[Sanctaria]

Does anyone else have anything to say? It's been just the two of us for the past ten posts.

The Editing Team really hates Frozen.

[Candlewhisper Archive]

HA! To hate it you have to know it, so that's fine by me.

As a vociferous consumer of the eclectic, Frozen is in the same top 50 movie list for me as The Departed, Spirited Away, Drunken Master, Scott Pilgrim, Amelie, The Usual Suspects, Pride and Prejudice and Pan's Labyrinth. I have no care whether I'm the intended audience of a film or not: if its a great movie I'm happy to love it!