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[ACCEPTED] The Widening Gyre

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Candlewhisper Archive
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[ACCEPTED] The Widening Gyre

Postby Candlewhisper Archive » Wed Feb 03, 2016 6:10 am

Name:

The Widening Gyre

Description:

@@CAPITAL@@ is recognised as the political and economic heart of @@NAME@@, but cities elsewhere in the nation are now complaining of government favouritism towards the capital. The gains of the capital have been the losses of the outlying regions.

Validity:

250 million population
Has a capital city

Options:

[option]"Everything is stacked in @@CAPITAL@@'s favour," complains @@RANDOMNAME@@, the Mayor of the second largest city, "and that hurts us. We are losing our brightest minds, our trade contracts, our cultural presence and even our political voice to the capital. I'm not saying we need to get rid of @@CAPITAL@@ being our capital, just that we need to strip it of any special status. Pass legislation to spread industry and jobs across the country, and distribute the apparatus of government across all the cities of your country. We're all @@DEMONYMPLURAL@@, how about some recognition of that?"
[effect]the once prosperous capital is in economic, political and cultural decline
[stats]inclusiveness increases, wealth gaps decrease, income equality increases, culture increases, political freedoms increase, economy decreases, authoritarianism decreases,

[option]"Enough about the cities!" demands country farmer @@RANDOMNAME@@. "Once, we were a simple folk with nine of ten of us living in the villages or the homesteads. Them big cities are nothin' but smoke an' noise and people wit' their uppity ways. Break 'em all up, says I. No more then three thousand folk should be in one place."
[effect]the capital is vastly depopulated as its people are forcibly moved to farming communes in the countryside
[stats]wealth gaps decrease dramatically, culture decreases, economy decreases, Sector: Agriculture increases a lot, primitiveness increases a lot, eco-friendliness increases a little, happiness increases a little, health increases a little, economy reduces massively, industries: basket weaving / car manufacturing increase, industries: pizza delivery / retail / information technology reduce, ideological radicality increases, civil rights decrease

[option]"These yokels should stop complaining," says big city businessman @@RANDOMMALENAME@@. "The wealth of the capital trickles down to the rest of the country: for example, I myself have spent part of my seven figure salary on a lovely holiday cottage in a picturesque village up north, and I source all my quinoa from a craft farm a whole ten miles from the capital. Reject these objections, and instead create more economic incentives for growth of the capital. It doesn't have to cost your government anything, just make some small shifts in the corporate tax burden to bolster up @@CAPITAL@@."
[effect]well over 90% of the country's economic activity takes place in the capital city
[stats]inclusiveness decreases, wealth gaps increase, income equality decreases, culture increases, economy increases, employment decreases, primitiveness decreases, toxicity increases a little, happiness decreases

[option]"We do need a Capital for government purposes but there's no reason for that to be to the economic detriment of the country," says Senator @@RANDOMNAME@@. "I suggest you keep a place of central government but designate an area as state-owned land, filled with low-rise government buildings, historic monuments, embassies and national museums. Keep private development out of it, and make it somewhere people visit rather than live, unless of course they are in the business of politics. Put the capital in the geographic rather than economic centre of the nation, but have it above and separate to the nation proper."
[effect]@@CAPITAL@@ was recently voted one of the top 10% dullest capital cities in @@REGION@@
[stats]economy increases marginally, government spending on administration increases,

Name:

The Widening Gyre

Description:

@@CAPITAL@@ is recognised as the political and economic heart of @@NAME@@, but cities elsewhere in the nation are now complaining of government favouritism towards the capital. The gains of the capital have been the losses of the outlying regions.

Validity:

250 million population
Has a capital city

Options:

[option]"Everything is stacked in @@CAPITAL@@'s favour," complains @@RANDOMNAME@@, the Mayor of the second largest city, "and that hurts us. We are losing our brightest minds, our trade contracts, our cultural presence and even our political voice to the capital. I'm not saying we need to get rid of @@CAPITAL@@, just that we need to strip it of any special status. Abolish the idea of a national capital city, and spread the apparatus of government across all the cities of your country. We're all @@DEMONYMPLURAL@@, how about some recognition of that?"
[effect]the former capital is in economic, political and cultural decline
[stats]inclusiveness increases, wealth gaps decrease, income equality increases, culture increases, political freedoms increase, economy decreases, authoritarianism decreases, CAPITAL removed,

[option]"Enough about the cities!" demands country farmer @@RANDOMNAME@@. "Once, we were a simple folk with nine of ten of us living in the villages or the homesteads. Them big cities are nothin' but smoke an' noise and people wit' their uppity ways. Break 'em all up, says I. No more then three thousand folk should be in one place."
[effect]former city stockbrokers forced to adopt the simple life are embarrassing themselves with their lack of real world survival skills
[stats]wealth gaps decrease dramatically, culture decreases, economy decreases, Sector: Agriculture increases a lot, primitiveness increases a lot, eco-friendliness increases a little, happiness increases a little, health increases a little, economy reduces massively, industries: basket weaving / car manufacturing increase, industries: pizza delivery / retail / information technology reduce, ideological radicality increases, CAPITAL removed,

[option]"These yokels should stop complaining," says big city businessman @@RANDOMMALENAME@@. "The wealth of the capital trickles down to the rest of the country: for example, I myself have spent part of my seven figure salary on a lovely holiday cottage in a picturesque village up north, and I source all my quinoa from a craft farm a whole ten miles from the capital. Reject these objections, and instead create more economic incentives for growth of the capital. It doesn't have to cost your government anything, just make some small shifts in the corporate tax burden to bolster up @@CAPITAL@@."
[effect]well over 90% of the country's economic activity takes place in the capital city
[stats]inclusiveness decreases, wealth gaps increase, income equality decreases, culture increases, economy increases, employment decreases, primitiveness decreases, toxicity increases a little, happiness decreases

[option]"We do need a Capital for government purposes but there's no reason for that to be to the economic detriment of the country," says Senator @@RANDOMNAME@@. "I suggest you keep a place of central government but designate an area as state-owned land, filled with low-rise government buildings, historic monuments, embassies and national museums. Keep private development out of it, and make it somewhere people visit rather than live, unless of course they are in the business of politics. Put the capital in the geographic rather than economic centre of the nation, but have it above and separate to the nation proper."
[effect]@@CAPITAL@@ is widely considered to be one of the dullest capital cities in the region
[stats]economy increases marginally, government spending on administration increases,
Last edited by Candlewhisper Archive on Fri Mar 18, 2016 8:10 am, edited 9 times in total.
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Leppikania
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Postby Leppikania » Wed Feb 03, 2016 7:00 am

  1. The 250 million pop validity is wholly unnecessary, as you need 250 million population to have a capital city.
  2. I think removing a country's capital city field will cause a lot of players to complain.
  3. I think you meant @@RANDOMNAME@@ when you typed @@RANDONNAME@@.
  4. Remove the ",am" from option 3.
  5. Why does option 1 decrease political freedoms?
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Gnejs
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Postby Gnejs » Wed Feb 03, 2016 7:27 am

I like this idea. I actually had a similar draft going on last summer (never did post it though). I'll try and bring a few comments when I get the time for it.

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Candlewhisper Archive
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Postby Candlewhisper Archive » Wed Feb 03, 2016 7:27 am

Leppikania wrote:
  1. The 250 million pop validity is wholly unnecessary, as you need 250 million population to have a capital city.
  2. I think removing a country's capital city field will cause a lot of players to complain.
  3. I think you meant @@RANDOMNAME@@ when you typed @@RANDONNAME@@.
  4. Remove the ",am" from option 3.
  5. Why does option 1 decrease political freedoms?


You're right re: the validity, and I realised that as I wrote it. Put it there in case the game doesn't track whether you have a capital currently.
Thanks for the typo catches. I meant businessman, not busineness,am.
The political freedom thing... hmm. I think I was imagining that if you decentralise the apparatus of government, then people gain more local control over their politics. Ah right, I see what has happened there. Should be INCREASES.

As to removing a capital city field, its a game change for sure, but so is adding a capital city. This basically reverts players back to the state where they were before they had a chance to add a capital. They can always gain the issue again that grants a Capital.
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Leppikania
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Postby Leppikania » Wed Feb 03, 2016 7:55 am

Candlewhisper Archive wrote:They can always gain the issue again that grants a Capital.

If they're lucky enough to get it again in a reasonable amount of time, that is. There will almost definitely be a lot of people complaining to the admins/Max Barry when picking that option with that validity. With World Assembly Woes you can at least rejoin immediately.
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Candlewhisper Archive
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Postby Candlewhisper Archive » Wed Feb 03, 2016 8:02 am

Leppikania wrote:
Candlewhisper Archive wrote:They can always gain the issue again that grants a Capital.

If they're lucky enough to get it again in a reasonable amount of time, that is. There will almost definitely be a lot of people complaining to the admins/Max Barry when picking that option with that validity. With World Assembly Woes you can at least rejoin immediately.


I suppose a lot of people don't read issues properly.

I guess, if implemented, it could do something similar - blank the capital name.

Will wait to see what Gnejs says: as he's behind-the-screen he can discuss feasibility of that game effect.
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Gnejs
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Postby Gnejs » Wed Feb 03, 2016 10:36 am

Just to clarify: when I said I liked this idea (and I do) I was talking about the theme of a dominant city and different approaches to potential government intervention and policy approaches.

I never saw the whole thing about making @@CAPITAL@@ disappear, which I don't necessarily find very interesting. As for the feasibility of that, I honestly don't know. That's an admin thing. I could ask, I guess. But regardless, the interesting part of the issue (in my opinion) is not whether or not @@CAPITAL@@ is in fact the Capital, but the city tier dynamic between the biggest and the slightly smaller and how you can go about addressing that.

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Trotterdam
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Postby Trotterdam » Wed Feb 03, 2016 11:27 am

I'm pretty sure the more senior editors have spoken against re-locking custom fields in the past.

I would suggest changing the text so the capital city still exists, but is greatly diminished in importance. Option 2's effect line could mention how @@CAPITAL@@ is a small collection of ramshackle huts, or perhaps a nomadic tent encampment (it worked for Genghis Khan...).

On the other side of things, of course, there are city-states (Singapore?), where the difference between "nation" and "capital" is essentially non-existent.
Last edited by Trotterdam on Wed Feb 03, 2016 11:31 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Candlewhisper Archive
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Postby Candlewhisper Archive » Wed Feb 03, 2016 5:05 pm

Noted and modified. The issue is changed so that it is about emphasis on the capital, rather than its existence.

I think there's nothing wrong with making certain genre assumptions, even if some nations don't fit the mould. Numerous issues already assume that every nation has wilderness, a coastline and forests. There's nations out there that have as their fiction fully urbanised landscapes, space-born civilisations and magical fantasy kingdoms. Stretches like that from the "standard" nationstates pattern can't really be accounted for.
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Gnejs
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Postby Gnejs » Thu Feb 04, 2016 12:42 am

Candlewhisper Archive wrote:I think there's nothing wrong with making certain genre assumptions, even if some nations don't fit the mould. Numerous issues already assume that every nation has wilderness, a coastline and forests. There's nations out there that have as their fiction fully urbanised landscapes, space-born civilisations and magical fantasy kingdoms. Stretches like that from the "standard" nationstates pattern can't really be accounted for.

I think this kind of assumption is ok as well.

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Chan Island
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Postby Chan Island » Thu Feb 04, 2016 11:18 am

Thing I don't understand is why there has to be any validity at all in this issue. As I stated in the writer's block, even if the nation doesn't have a capital city, issues will assume "@@NAME@@ City" is it.

As for population, even in small nations IRL there are complaints about too much favoritism for the capital. I know for a fact that even in microscopic Luxembourg there is controversy about how much is focused on the capital.
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Candlewhisper Archive
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Postby Candlewhisper Archive » Thu Feb 04, 2016 3:43 pm

Well, in one of my puppets I picked the option that declines to establish a capital city: 241.5

5. "What's wrong with the old building?" asks @@RANDOMNAME@@, a noted disestablishmentarian. "We don't need some kind of fancy capital city just to make the bigwig ministers feel important! If there's no room, then fire politicians until there IS room. Have you never heard of doing more with less?"

While I suspect not many people pick this option for their main nation, I can see people picking it for puppets out of curiosity.

I'd be disappointed, in this nation, to get Issues that suggest I have a Capital.

Still not clear to me if the game can run this validity criteria, of course.
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Candlewhisper Archive
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Postby Candlewhisper Archive » Fri Mar 18, 2016 8:12 am

Gnejs, you wonderful person!

Many thanks for editing and publishing this issue.

Two in the space of 48 hours! The gods smile upon me!

Love the choices made by the way: it reads cleaner all round, and is nicely trimmed down to its core narrative. No complaints here. Also notable as my first issue where my title went through unchanged!
Last edited by Candlewhisper Archive on Fri Mar 18, 2016 8:39 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Annihilators of Chan Island
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Postby Annihilators of Chan Island » Fri Mar 18, 2016 11:13 am

Candlewhisper Archive wrote:Gnejs, you wonderful person!

Many thanks for editing and publishing this issue.

Two in the space of 48 hours! The gods smile upon me!

Love the choices made by the way: it reads cleaner all round, and is nicely trimmed down to its core narrative. No complaints here. Also notable as my first issue where my title went through unchanged!


2 in 48 hours! I'll just call the SCP Foundation and have them look into this!

Good job though!
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Gnejs
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Postby Gnejs » Fri Mar 18, 2016 1:16 pm

I'm glad you like it. I enjoyed working on it :)

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Eahland
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Postby Eahland » Fri Mar 18, 2016 6:43 pm

I just got this one, and it's got a couple problems as implemented.

Firstly, instead of using my set demonym plural ("Eahliscmenn") in the first option, it's using the adjective ("Eahlisc"), awkwardly pluralized, resulting in a badly formed sentence.

Secondly, and this one is more my personal opinion, the original option #4, for your capital to be a political center but cultural and economic backwater, which is canonically the case in my nation, was not included, which means that this is yet another issue that I'm going to have to dismiss on sight because it doesn't include any acceptable options. Which is a pity, because it has a cool name.
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Postby Sanctaria » Fri Mar 18, 2016 6:55 pm

Eahland wrote:Firstly, instead of using my set demonym plural ("Eahliscmenn") in the first option, it's using the adjective ("Eahlisc"), awkwardly pluralized, resulting in a badly formed sentence.

Easy coding mistake to make, this is fixed.

Eahland wrote:Secondly, and this one is more my personal opinion, the original option #4, for your capital to be a political center but cultural and economic backwater, which is canonically the case in my nation, was not included, which means that this is yet another issue that I'm going to have to dismiss on sight because it doesn't include any acceptable options. Which is a pity, because it has a cool name.

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Gnejs
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Postby Gnejs » Sat Mar 19, 2016 5:02 am

Eahland wrote:Secondly, and this one is more my personal opinion, the original option #4, for your capital to be a political center but cultural and economic backwater, which is canonically the case in my nation, was not included, which means that this is yet another issue that I'm going to have to dismiss on sight because it doesn't include any acceptable options. Which is a pity, because it has a cool name.

I get the frustration of not having an option tailor-made to your own setting, but that's pretty much always going to be the case for someone.

With the backstory you have in mind for your nation, I would say that #1 is actually not that far off. It suggests stripping the capital of economic benefits, whereas the line about the government spreading its apparatus doesn't need to imply that you strip it of all political functions (could be something like what the Danish government is doing right now in relocating about 4 000 government work places from Copenhagen to other parts of the country). In picking #1 your @@CAPITAL@@ is still the capital (political centre, home of parliament, ministries etc), but less of an economic centre. Kind of sounds like what you envision for your nation. But you know, totally up to you, of course.

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Eahland
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Postby Eahland » Sat Mar 19, 2016 8:56 pm

It just annoys me because there was a choice that was as close to perfect as I ever expect from an issue, but for some reason it wasn't included in the issue as actually implemented, and I don't see why not. There's no discussion of leaving it out in the thread.
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Sanctaria
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Postby Sanctaria » Sat Mar 19, 2016 8:58 pm

Eahland wrote:It just annoys me because there was a choice that was as close to perfect as I ever expect from an issue, but for some reason it wasn't included in the issue as actually implemented, and I don't see why not. There's no discussion of leaving it out in the thread.

The Editing Team made the decision to cut it, and we don't have our discussions in public.

So there was a discussion on cutting it, and a decision made, but it wouldn't have been in the public thread.
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Candlewhisper Archive
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Postby Candlewhisper Archive » Mon Mar 21, 2016 1:57 am

Not on the team, so I guess I can share some thoughts.

Obviously, I liked the political capital as well, but I can see it being problematic in a couple of ways.

The first is that a lot of issue assume the capital is a bustling, living city. for verisimilitude the game would either then have to track that you made the choice of having a political only capital, then add validity criteria to all those issues and to all future issues that mention the capital, or ignore that clash in the fiction and introduce another element where people can decry NS is unrealistic. I suspect the gain in freedom of choice by adding this option wasn't worth that legwork, which I totally get.

The second is that the issue doesn't NEED that option for it to be complete. Certainly an additional option might improve it marginally, but I think it stands well in its current form. This weighs into the first point, as it means that simply cutting it is an acceptable choice.
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Trotterdam
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Postby Trotterdam » Mon Mar 21, 2016 10:35 am

Meh about that option. I'm just disappointed this suggestion wasn't taken:
Trotterdam wrote:I would suggest changing the text so the capital city still exists, but is greatly diminished in importance. Option 2 [3 in the edited version]'s effect line could mention how @@CAPITAL@@ is a small collection of ramshackle huts, or perhaps a nomadic tent encampment (it worked for Genghis Khan...).





I just got this issue on my nation and chose to support my capital. Both economy stuff and environmental beauty, as well as scientific advancement, went up (probably due to reduction in rural industries like agriculture and timber woodchipping, and increase in urban industries like information technology), but income equality and inclusiveness took a hit. Sorry, peasants.

Also got the Artist's Impression banner (develop high levels of economic freedom in a nation of at least 250 million citizens) for my Economic Freedom moving from 57.67 to 60.33, so I guess the cutoff is 60 or so.

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Candlewhisper Archive
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Postby Candlewhisper Archive » Mon Mar 21, 2016 11:31 am

I did actually take you up on that suggestion, if you compare the spoiler version with the final draft.

I went from "former city stockbrokers forced to adopt the simple life are embarrassing themselves with their lack of real world survival skills" to "the capital is vastly depopulated as its people are forcibly moved to farming communes in the countryside".

Not your exact words, but I didn't like the idea of the architecture of a city changing just because the people move out of it. The city's buildings wouldn't be replaced by tribal huts just because everyone is moved out. However, it was your feedback that made me change the effect line,
Last edited by Candlewhisper Archive on Mon Mar 21, 2016 11:31 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Trotterdam
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Postby Trotterdam » Mon Mar 21, 2016 12:43 pm

Aww, but what I really liked about that suggestion was the notion that, even though your nation now has no settlements larger than a tiny hamlet, one of those tiny hamlets is still designated as your capital.

In fact, the edited version of the issue even plays this up, adjusting the maximum number of people supposed to be in one place from 3000 to 400 ("twenty scores" - I'll confess, I initially misread that as just 20). The architecture is going to change - it is practically impossible to maintain modern infrastructure with that few people, so even without deliberate remodeling, nature will reclaim most of the city.


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