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[SUBMITTED] Sound Judgement

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Candlewhisper Archive
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[SUBMITTED] Sound Judgement

Postby Candlewhisper Archive » Mon Jan 25, 2016 8:23 am

Name:

Sound Judgement

Description:

At a recent international sporting event, Bigtopian fans proudly sung their national anthem: "Bigger And Cleverer". Meanwhile, different parts of the @@DENONYMNOUNPLURAL@@ crowd each sang half a dozen different tunes, highlighting the fact that @@NAME@@ still doesn't have an official national anthem.

Validity:

Population 1 billion

Options:

[option]"We used to have a grand old national anthem," says retired veteran and military historian @@RANDOMNAME@@, "but the moralising minority got rid of it just because it's got the odd reference to raising a flag of glory stained in the blood of the enemy. That was wrong! It was a strong, rousing tune that saw a nation united! It was a proud tune for a proud people! Bring back 'The Battle Anthem of the @@ANIMAL@@'!"
[effect]the national anthem inspires proudly patriotic people to literally spit at foreigners.
[stats]happiness increases, inclusiveness decreases, pacifism decreases, niceness decreases, rudeness increases, defence spending increases, industry: arms manufacturing increases, weaponisation increases

[option]"Are we defined by our armies, or by our faith?" says choralist @@RANDOMMALENAME@@, adopting his favourite holier-than-thou smug expression, "We do indeed have an old anthem to use: it is a hymn giving thanks for one people under @@FAITH@@. Use your anthem to lift your prayers to the kingdom above, and to tell the world that you are a holy nation!"
[effect]the national anthem is considered broadly offensive to those not of the national religion
[stats]inclusiveness decreases, religion increases, social conservatism increases

[option]"That's not what @@NAME@@ is in our modern age," says avant-garde composer @@RANDOMMALENAME@@, handing you a caffeine-free herbal infusion to sip, "We're pan-cultural nation of pan-humanity. We're looking longingly to a future of harmony and peace. I've composed an audiotheatrical tribute to the brotherhood and sisterhood of all living things, with whalesong, echoing voices in ethnic local dialects and the joyful laugh of a newborn babe. The whole thing is six hours, but you can just use the main refrain for official occasions. That's your new national anthem. I call it 'The Peace of @@NAME@@.'"
[effect]the national anthem makes listeners feel calm, serene and really, really bored
[stats]compassion increases, niceness increases, pacifism increases, eco-friendliness increases, economy decreases, rudeness decreases, safety from crime increases

[option]"Riiiiight. A six hour national anthem? He can definitely 'PEACE OFF'!" says annoying pun-spitting radio DJ @@RANDOMNAME@@, "Of CHORUS we need something catchier and poppier. We shouldn't be aVERSE to a bit of JINGLEISM. Why not let the listeners vote for an anthem? You could call it... COUNTRY'S music. Ha ha, I'm so funny!"
[effect]the national anthem is changed weekly to match the billboard number one pop song
[stats]political freedom increases a little, stupidity increases a little

[option]"Why give away something that could be sold?" says @@MAJORINDUSTRY@@ bigwig @@RANDOMNAME@@, "Sell anthem-composing rights to the highest bidder on a yearly basis and you've got yourself an excellent new source of government revenue. Alright, so we might be looking at a little bit of targeted advertising from this at sports events and government shindigs, but how is that any different from the odd billboard or TV spot? If it is good for the economy then it is good for @@NAME@@! Am I right?"
[effect]the national anthem is a sung advertisement for great, great shopping deals
[stats]business subsidisation increases a little, taxation increases, income tax falls, economic freedom increases, economy increases a little

[option]"The nation is you, dear leader." says propaganda minister @@RANDOMNAME@@, "and you are the nation! An anthem should sing your praises and be entitled 'Ode To @@LEADER@@'. We can work on the words and the tune later: the important thing is the subject matter."
[effect]disrespectful foreign satirists mock the national anthem
[stats]political freedom decreases, authoritarianism increases, youth rebellion decreases

[option]"The subject isn't the important thing," says snobby classical composer @@RANDOMNAME@@, "and indeed we don't really have to have words for the plebs to sing along to either. The important thing here is that we create a modern masterpiece of musical composition. This must be an orchestral piece that stands the test of time. We need a magnum opus that will raise the spirits .We require music that tells the world exactly what is in the soul of a @@DENONYMNOUN@@. Assemble a symposium of the nation's greatest composers and assemble an orchestra of the finest classical musicians. Give us a year and a budget. We will give to you a National Symphony that will last forever."
[effect]the National Symphony reduces men to tears with its beauty and the treasury to tears with how much it cost
[stats]culture increases, social inequality increases, wealth inequality increases, culture spending increases

Name:

Sound Judgement

Description:

At a recent international sporting event, Bigtopian fans proudly sung their national anthem, "Bigger And Cleverer". Meanwhile, different parts of the @@DENONYMNOUNPLURAL@@ crowd each sang half a dozen different tunes, highlighting the fact that @@NAME@@ still doesn't have an official national anthem.

Validity:

Population 1 billion

Options:

[option]"We used to have grand old a national anthem," says retired veteran and military historian @@RANDOMNAME@@, "but the moralising minority got rid of it just because its got the odd reference to kicking the flat faces of Bigtopians, and raising a flag of glory stained in the blood of the enemy. Bring back The Battle 'Anthem of the @@ANIMAL@@', that was a proud tune for a proud people!"
[effect]the national anthem inspires proudly patriotic people to literally spit at foreigners
[stats]happiness increases, inclusiveness decreases, pacifism decreases, niceness decreases, rudeness increases, defence spending increases, industry: arms manufacturing increases, weaponisation increases

[option]"Are we defined by our armies, or by our faith?" says choralist @@RANDOMMALENAME@@, adopting his favourite holier-than-thou smug expression, "We do indeed have an old anthem to use: it is a hymn singing glory to one nation under @@FAITH@@. Use your anthem to sing praise to the highest, and to tell the world that we are a people of faith!"
[effect]the national anthem is considered broadly offensive to those not of the national religion
[stats]inclusiveness decreases, religion increases, social conservatism increases

[option]"That's not what @@NAME@@ is in our modern age," says avant-garde composer @@RANDOMMALENAME@@, handing you a caffeine-free herbal infusion to sip, "We're pan-cultural, pan-humanity and looking longingly to a future of harmony and peace. I've composed a six hour audiotheatrical tribute to the brotherhood and sisterhood of all living things, with whalesong, echoing voices in ethnic local dialects and the joyful laugh of a newborn babe. That's your new national anthem. I call it 'The Peace of @@NAME@@.'"
[effect]the national anthem makes listeners feel calm, serene and really, really bored
[stats]compassion increases, niceness increases, pacifism increases, eco-friendliness increases, economy decreases, rudeness decreases, safety from crime increases

[option]"Riiiiight. A six hour national anthem? He can definitely 'PEACE OFF'!" says annoying pun-spitting radio DJ @@RANDOMNAME@@, "It SOUNDS to me like we need something catchier and poppier, in TUNE with the modern world. Why not let the listeners vote for an anthem? You could call it... COUNTRY'S music. Ha ha, I'm so funny!"
[effect]the national anthem is changed weekly to match the billboard number one pop song
[stats]political freedom increases a little, stupidity increases a little

[option]"Why give away something that could be sold?" says @@MAJORINDUSTRY@@ bigwig @@RANDOMNAME@@, "Sell the anthem to the highest bidder on a yearly basis, and you've got yourself an excellent new source of tax revenue. Good for you, good for business. Alright, so we might be looking at a little bit of product placement and targeted advertising from this at sports events and government shindigs, but how is that any different from the odd billboard or TV spot? If its good for the economy, its good for @@NAME@@, right?"
[effect]the national anthem is a sung advertisement for great, great shopping deals
[stats]business subsidisation increases a little, taxation increases, income tax falls, economic freedom increases, economy increases a little

[option]"The nation is you, dear leader." says propaganda minister @@RANDOMNAME@@, "and you are the nation! An anthem should sing your praises and be entitled 'Ode To @@LEADER@@'. We can work on the words and the tune later: the important thing is the subject matter."
[effect]disrespectful foreign satirists mock your national anthem
[stats]political freedom decreases, authoritarianism increases, youth rebellion decreases

[option]"The subject isn't the important thing," says snobby classical composer @@RANDOMNAME@@, "and indeed we don't really have to have words for the plebs to sing along to either. The important thing here is that we create a modern masterpiece of musical composition. This has to be an orchestral piece that will stand the test of time - a magnum opus that will raise the spirits, and tell everyone exactly what it means to be a @@DENONYMNOUN@@. Assemble a symposium of the nation's greatest composers, and assemble an orchestra of the finest classical musicians. Give us a year and a budget, and we will give to you a National Symphony that will last forever."
[effect]the national symphony is a brilliant musical composition widely regarded as pretentious tripe by the general populace
[stats]culture increases, social inequality increases, wealth inequality increases, culture spending increases
Last edited by Candlewhisper Archive on Thu Jan 28, 2016 7:27 am, edited 21 times in total.
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Leppikania
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Postby Leppikania » Mon Jan 25, 2016 8:50 am

*whistle* You put a second-person pronoun in the effect for option 6! Don't do that!
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Candlewhisper Archive
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Postby Candlewhisper Archive » Mon Jan 25, 2016 9:23 am

Leppikania wrote:*whistle* You put a second-person pronoun in the effect for option 6! Don't do that!


Didn't know we can't do that!

Have changed it to "the" national anthem.
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Leppikania
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Postby Leppikania » Mon Jan 25, 2016 9:29 am

Candlewhisper Archive wrote:
Leppikania wrote:*whistle* You put a second-person pronoun in the effect for option 6! Don't do that!


Didn't know we can't do that!

Have changed it to "the" national anthem.

It appears on the nation page for others to see, so it's best to avoid second person in the effect lines, unless you're using quotes.
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Candlewhisper Archive
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Postby Candlewhisper Archive » Mon Jan 25, 2016 10:06 am

Never thought of that! Nice catch
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Estaera
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Postby Estaera » Mon Jan 25, 2016 10:50 am

Candlewhisper Archive wrote:"Riiiiight. A six hour national anthem? He can definitely 'PEACE OFF'!" says annoying pun-spitting radio DJ @@RANDOMNAME@@, "It SOUNDS to me like we need something catchier and poppier, in TUNE with the modern world. Why not let the listeners vote for an anthem? You could call it... COUNTRY'S music. Ha ha, I'm so funny!"


I feel like if you're going to highlight that the DJ is into puns, you need some stronger puns. I assume what you have in caps is meant to be a pun. Personally, I like the "country's music" one. It fits well with the issue overall and is somewhat creative. On the other hand, I think that the "in tune" comment is rather bland and "sounds to me" is more of a coincidence, with a common phrase happening to have a word overlap with the topic of your issue. "Peace off" is good, but it took me a while to understand it. That might just be because I am sleep deprived, but nonetheless.

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Trotterdam
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Postby Trotterdam » Mon Jan 25, 2016 11:08 am

Candlewhisper Archive wrote:The Battle 'Anthem of the @@ANIMAL@@'
I think you misplaced your quotes here.

Candlewhisper Archive wrote:[option]"The nation is you, dear leader." says propaganda minister @@RANDOMNAME@@, "and you are the nation! An anthem should sing your praises and be entitled 'Ode To @@LEADER@@'. We can work on the words and the tune later: the important thing is the subject matter."
[effect]disrespectful foreign satirists mock the national anthem
[stats]political freedom decreases, authoritarianism increases, youth rebellion decreases
...As funny as the other options are, it's kind of sad when this is one of the two most reasonable options on the issue.

Candlewhisper Archive wrote:[effect]the national symphony is a brilliant musical composition widely regarded as pretentious tripe by the general populace
...This being the other. C'mon, classical music isn't that boring.

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Candlewhisper Archive
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Postby Candlewhisper Archive » Mon Jan 25, 2016 11:19 am

Quotes fixed.

You really think a "Glory to Our Leader" anthem is a reasonable option? As an anti-Royalist in the UK, I've always found God Save The Queen kind of sticks in my throat.

Any ideas for the effect line for the classical symphony? Maybe something about the cost?
Last edited by Candlewhisper Archive on Mon Jan 25, 2016 11:21 am, edited 2 times in total.
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Postby Trotterdam » Mon Jan 25, 2016 11:35 am

Candlewhisper Archive wrote:You really think a "Glory to Our Leader" anthem is a reasonable option?
Depends on the leader. If your leader is actually good at her job, then listing the legitimate ways in which she's improved your country (which is basically the same as praising your country, except with occasional mentions of how it got to be that way) is a far cry better than a hate-filled bigot anthem, another hate-filled bigot anthem, six hours of stupid noises, changing the anthem weekly, or corporate advertising.

At least three of those would be entertaining choices on appropiate-minded evil(ish) nations, but not things I would ever consider on a nation that's trying to be respectable. I guess the religious hymn one could be reasonable if you have a really inoffensive religion, but the effect line implies it isn't.

Candlewhisper Archive wrote:As an anti-Royalist in the UK, I've always found God Save The Queen kind of sticks in my throat.
Well, the Queen isn't really the leader of the UK anyway. She's a figurehead with no real power.

But then I'm fond of benevolent dictatorships, at least in fiction. It's not like a dictator roleplayed by me is going to be any less competent than a democratically-elected leader roleplayed by me.

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Candlewhisper Archive
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Postby Candlewhisper Archive » Mon Jan 25, 2016 12:00 pm

That's very fair, though I didn't suggest any "evil" game effects from the pro-Leader anthem. The nation remains just as nice and compassionate as before, and there's no negative impact on quality of life. It just shrinks political freedoms, just as political freedoms are lower under even a benevolent dictator.

Likewise with the religious option, any nation identifying itself strongly with one religion is going to be one that is less inclusive of other religions, even if the tenets of that religion are pluralistic and open minded.

Actually my preferred option in real life is the six hours of stupid noises! As an anti-nationalist and anti-patriot who believes in global community and is against the concept of excessive national identity, I'm very much wanting a national anthem that is abstract, symbolic of togetherness and which doesn't stir feelings of patriotic identity.
Last edited by Candlewhisper Archive on Mon Jan 25, 2016 12:02 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Postby Trotterdam » Mon Jan 25, 2016 12:19 pm

Candlewhisper Archive wrote:That's very fair, though I didn't suggest any "evil" game effects from the pro-Leader anthem.
...Which is my point?

Candlewhisper Archive wrote:Actually my preferred option in real life is the six hours of stupid noises! As an anti-nationalist and anti-patriot who believes in global community and is against the concept of excessive national identity, I'm very much wanting a national anthem that is abstract, symbolic of togetherness and which doesn't stir feelings of patriotic identity.
That composer's premise I greatly agree with. For the first half of the option, I thought he was going to be the one I'd side with. But when he went from there to six hours of stupid noises, he lost me.

I don't think an anthem which "doesn't stir feelings of patriotic identity" makes sense, since that's pretty much the point of an anthem... even if your "patriotic identity" is praising your country's multiculturalism (as opposed to those other, less multicultural countries out these).

Whatever it is that you want your citizens to be proud of, even peace and harmony, give them awesome music evocative of that theme that does a good job of inspiring that pride.

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Candlewhisper Archive
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Postby Candlewhisper Archive » Mon Jan 25, 2016 3:13 pm

Estaera wrote:
Candlewhisper Archive wrote:"Riiiiight. A six hour national anthem? He can definitely 'PEACE OFF'!" says annoying pun-spitting radio DJ @@RANDOMNAME@@, "It SOUNDS to me like we need something catchier and poppier, in TUNE with the modern world. Why not let the listeners vote for an anthem? You could call it... COUNTRY'S music. Ha ha, I'm so funny!"


I feel like if you're going to highlight that the DJ is into puns, you need some stronger puns. I assume what you have in caps is meant to be a pun. Personally, I like the "country's music" one. It fits well with the issue overall and is somewhat creative. On the other hand, I think that the "in tune" comment is rather bland and "sounds to me" is more of a coincidence, with a common phrase happening to have a word overlap with the topic of your issue. "Peace off" is good, but it took me a while to understand it. That might just be because I am sleep deprived, but nonetheless.


Good point. Pointing out a character's unfunniness doesn't excuse me as a writer from being funny. I should at least have some groanworthy puns in there. Any ideas?
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Postby Almonaster Nuevo » Mon Jan 25, 2016 5:01 pm

Of CHORUS we need something better. Who's aVERSE to a bit of JINGLEism, eh?
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Postby Candlewhisper Archive » Wed Jan 27, 2016 1:42 am

Brilliant! Amended.
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Postby Christian Democrats » Wed Jan 27, 2016 2:29 am

I really like this idea, so all I have are a few grammar nazi comments.

Candlewhisper Archive wrote:"We used to have grand old a national anthem,"

Did you intend to say "a grand old"? And I would change "old" to "ole."

Candlewhisper Archive wrote:just because its got the odd reference

Wrong its.

Candlewhisper Archive wrote:the national anthem inspires proudly patriotic people to literally spit at foreigners

You split the infinitive.
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Postby Candlewhisper Archive » Wed Jan 27, 2016 2:44 am

Christian Democrats wrote:I really like this idea, so all I have are a few grammar nazi comments.

Candlewhisper Archive wrote:"We used to have grand old a national anthem,"

Did you intend to say "a grand old"? And I would change "old" to "ole."

Candlewhisper Archive wrote:just because its got the odd reference

Wrong its.

Candlewhisper Archive wrote:the national anthem inspires proudly patriotic people to literally spit at foreigners

You split the infinitive.


Great catches, thanks.

Re: the split infinitive, "to spit literally at foreigners" sounds terrible.

So, um... ah got it.

"the national anthem literally inspires proudly patriotic people to spit at foreigners."

Looks like I've gone on to boldy fix that? :)

Actually, no. That's terrible. It makes the inspiration literal, not the spitting.

Reverting that now.

Split infinitives are a funny thing. Obeying that rule makes it very hard for a sentence to properly scan* in modern usage.

Can you suggest a better way to phrase this?

"literally to spit at foreigners"?

Does that work better?



*sorry, couldn't resist.
Last edited by Candlewhisper Archive on Wed Jan 27, 2016 2:57 am, edited 5 times in total.
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Postby Trotterdam » Wed Jan 27, 2016 11:54 am

Christian Democrats wrote:
Candlewhisper Archive wrote:the national anthem inspires proudly patriotic people to literally spit at foreigners
You split the infinitive.
That's not wrong. The myth that you're not supposed to split infinitives comes from misapplying Latin grammar rules to English. In English, putting adverbs between the "to" and the actual infinitive (which, in English, is identical to the normal form of the verb - hence the confusion) is the correct usage and sounds far more natural than any other word order.

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Postby Omigodtheykilledkenny » Wed Jan 27, 2016 12:03 pm

"the national anthem literally inspires proud patriotic people to spit at foreigners," or "the national anthem inspires proud patriotic people literally to spit at foreigners." It's not hard.

I was never informed that split infinitives were a "myth" when I got my English degree.
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Postby Omigodtheykilledkenny » Wed Jan 27, 2016 12:10 pm

Another note: have a care with punctuation in effect lines. It will start to get difficult to read the lines on our profiles if there are too many commas.

Also, your first speaker merely explains why the first national anthem was dropped then just says we should bring it back. At least he should explain why we should bring back such an offensive song:

"We used to have a grand old national anthem," says retired veteran and military historian @@RANDOMNAME@@, "but the moralising minority got rid of it just because it's got the odd reference to kicking the flat faces of Bigtopians, and raising a flag of glory stained in the blood of the enemy. That was wrong. As @@DEMONYMNOUN@@s we should never have to apologise for a central tenet of our identity just because it offends a few whiny protesters. Bring back 'The Battle Anthem of the @@ANIMAL@@', that was a proud tune for a proud people!"

Just for a start. You can think up something better if that's no good.
Last edited by Omigodtheykilledkenny on Wed Jan 27, 2016 12:10 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Candlewhisper Archive
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Postby Candlewhisper Archive » Wed Jan 27, 2016 12:11 pm

Its a contentious one, for sure.

Totally inspired me to write an issue around it though, so I'm grateful it has been raised:

viewtopic.php?f=13&t=367004

You're right about the commas, I've always had a tendency to spray them around like rat's droppings. I'll see if I can break them up a bit to improve readability.
Last edited by Candlewhisper Archive on Wed Jan 27, 2016 12:13 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Estaera
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Postby Estaera » Thu Jan 28, 2016 9:00 am

Candlewhisper Archive wrote:Good point. Pointing out a character's unfunniness doesn't excuse me as a writer from being funny. I should at least have some groanworthy puns in there. Any ideas?

I like what you have now! Although, might I suggest something along the lines of "Fun clearly isn't his forte," in reference to the previous option. Or maybe, "Is this guys suggesting that our anthem be full of sax and violins?"
As a musician, I'm sure I could think up some more, but these were just off the top of my head :p

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Candlewhisper Archive
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Postby Candlewhisper Archive » Fri Jan 29, 2016 10:13 am

Damn, that's good.

I just submitted a half hour before you posted though. I can always re-submit, but I'll see if there's any other good changes to make before doing so.
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Sanctaria
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Postby Sanctaria » Fri Jan 29, 2016 10:17 am

Candlewhisper Archive wrote:Damn, that's good.

I just submitted a half hour before you posted though. I can always re-submit, but I'll see if there's any other good changes to make before doing so.

I've already checked this out for editing, so don't resubmit it. Just post any re-drafts in this thread and I'll keep an eye out.
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