Not Sure What's Happening Here

[Annihilators of Chan Island]

So I just got the banner "Not Sure What's Happening Here" for my nation, however I'm unsure how I got it. The description merely reads ''be strange'', which is pretty vague. I'm using this banner as my primary for now so that people can look at it.

My past 5 issues are listed here.

30 minutes ago: Following new legislation in Annihilators of Chan Island, people have to sneak out of the country in order to have sex.
30 minutes ago: Following new legislation in Annihilators of Chan Island, the police crack down on tax evaders without mercy.
30 minutes ago: Following new legislation in Annihilators of Chan Island, the mob and the police have recently had numerous clashes in the back alleys of Annihilators of Chan Island's cities due to the government's steadfast anti-casino stance.
30 minutes ago: Following new legislation in Annihilators of Chan Island, citizens are regularly arrested in queues for 'loitering'.
30 minutes ago: Following new legislation in Annihilators of Chan Island, workers' complaints never reach central planning.

Problem is though, in the past I've chosen all of these options before. And never got a banner for them.

Did I get that banner for answering these in some combination? Or is it a combination of stats that came together that made me eligible for it? Or did they maybe raise a particular stat to the point where I earned the banner?

I love the banner, it's absolutely fantastic, but yeah if anybody knows how I might have gotten it, then that would be wonderful.

[Trotterdam]

You have to admit it does make the thread title pretty appropiate

My best guess, based on the description, is that it might depend on your Radicality stat. Looking at it, your current value is 40, which is a nice round number (for those of us using the crude base-10 system), so that might be the cutoff.

[Singapore no2]

You have to admit it does make the thread title pretty appropiate

My best guess, based on the description, is that it might depend on your Radicality stat. Looking at it, your current value is 40, which is a nice round number (for those of us using the crude base-10 system), so that might be the cutoff.

It could be that you have for example, a terrible environment but brilliant health, maybe?

[Frisbeeteria]

While banner placement is often predicated by issues, Issue Editors and Issue Mods have naught to do with banner placement. So don't expect a firm answer on this topic. You'll be limited to apocryphal player experiences at best.

[Drachmaland]

My best guess, based on the description, is that it might depend on your Radicality stat. Looking at it, your current value is 40, which is a nice round number (for those of us using the crude base-10 system), so that might be the cutoff.

So, let's try the ‘Radicality Hypothesis’. Out of the nations that I can have access to (and which have a quite smooth history as far as their Ideological Radicality metric is concerned):

• The ones having the banner show values ranging from 50 to 42, as well as 38, 37, 35, and 29. The last three nations have had said banner since their founding, when their Radicality might have been higher.
• The ones not having the banner show values of 41, and then ranging from 38 to 8.

We see that:

• One nation has its Ideological Radicality at 41, and it hasn't received said banner.
• One nation has its Ideological Radicality at 38, and it received said banner when they opted for the 2nd option in issue #158 (resulting in a significant drop in its Civil Rights, from 93 to 88).
• One nation has its Ideological Radicality at 43, and it received said banner on a day that they didn't answer any issue at either of that day's updates.

My feeling is that, if there is some threshold, then it might be a hidden metric or a combination of stats (like e.g. a Radicality-to-Averageness ratio).
As a matter of fact, bringing Averageness into play could explain this banner being given at a day with no issue answers because maybe that day one or more issues were dismissed (so Averageness is the only* stat that was affected that day).
____
*Along with Population, which is deemed irrelevant here.

[Annihilators of Chan Island]

My best guess, based on the description, is that it might depend on your Radicality stat. Looking at it, your current value is 40, which is a nice round number (for those of us using the crude base-10 system), so that might be the cutoff.

So, let's try the ‘Radicality Hypothesis’. Out of the nations that I can have access to (and which have a quite smooth history as far as their Ideological Radicality metric is concerned):

• The ones having the banner show values ranging from 50 to 42, as well as 38, 37, 35, and 29. The last three nations have had said banner since their founding, when their Radicality might have been higher.
• The ones not having the banner show values of 41, and then ranging from 38 to 8.

We see that:

• One nation has its Ideological Radicality at 41, and it hasn't received said banner.
• One nation has its Ideological Radicality at 38, and it received said banner when they opted for the 2nd option in issue #158 (resulting in a significant drop in its Civil Rights, from 93 to 88).
• One nation has its Ideological Radicality at 43, and it received said banner on a day that they didn't answer any issue at either of that day's updates.

My feeling is that, if there is some threshold, then it might be a hidden metric or a combination of stats (like e.g. a Radicality-to-Averageness ratio).
As a matter of fact, bringing Averageness into play could explain this banner being given at a day with no issue answers because maybe that day one or more issues were dismissed (so Averageness is the only* stat that was affected that day).
____
*Along with Population, which is deemed irrelevant here.

So your suggestion is that it's the ratio of Averageness and Ideological Radicality? That would have to be a low averageness to high radicality ratio, as I pride myself on how radical and unaverage this nation is.

It might well be a hidden stat. That would make sense, although not a move I'd approve of.

[Drachmaland]

I believe that my data just deny the Radicality Hypothesis the way it was expressed (i.e., with a threshold of 40).
My bringing Averageness into the game was an attempt from my part to modify said Hypothesis in a productive way.
In any case, truth is that I cannot suggest anything with any degree of certainty; just as Frisbeeteria had already said.

[Kesshite]

As a matter of fact, bringing Averageness into play could explain this banner being given at a day with no issue answers because maybe that day one or more issues were dismissed (so Averageness is the only* stat that was affected that day).
____
*Along with Population, which is deemed irrelevant here.

I believe your Population stat is part of how Average you are.

[Drachmaland]

Btw, is there any resource here describing the Averageness metric?

Plus all this time I've been under the impression so far that the Population stat is not taken into account for any other NS stats.

And I think (correct me if I'm wrong) that if a nation doesn't answer or dismiss any issues, its Population will keep increasing, however its Averageness will remain unchanged.

[Annihilators of Chan Island]

Btw, is there any resource here describing the Averageness metric?

Plus all this time I've been under the impression so far that the Population stat is not taken into account for any other NS stats.

And I think (correct me if I'm wrong) that if a nation doesn't answer or dismiss any issues, its Population will keep increasing, however its Averageness will remain unchanged.

That is actually a good question. My guess has always been that averageness was linked to several factors, cross-referencing with stats like ideological radicality and rudeness. Basically, the less overly nice or overly nasty the populace, the less extreme the politics of the populace, the higher the averageness stat. Of course, I'm basing it off nothing but guesswork.

Population always increases no matter what a person does with their nation. Somebody who never answers or dismiss issues would still have their population rise. I'd be surprised if it impacted anything other than the issue macro @@POPULATION@@, and possibly a banner or two.

At the end of the day, it is exactly as Frisbeeteria put it. We'll never know for certain.

[Drachmaland]

Btw, is there any resource here describing the Averageness metric?
Plus all this time I've been under the impression so far that the Population stat is not taken into account for any other NS stats.
And I think (correct me if I'm wrong) that if a nation doesn't answer or dismiss any issues, its Population will keep increasing, however its Averageness will remain unchanged.

That is actually a good question. My guess has always been that averageness was linked to several factors, cross-referencing with stats like ideological radicality and rudeness. Basically, the less overly nice or overly nasty the populace, the less extreme the politics of the populace, the higher the averageness stat. Of course, I'm basing it off nothing but guesswork.

My questions regarding the Averageness metric are laid out in more detail in our offsite forum: http://www.westpacific.org/forums/index ... e/?p=32479
(You're all invited to participate in that discussion as well, if you wish.)

[Drachmaland]

We see that:

• One nation has its Ideological Radicality at 41, and it hasn't received said banner.
• [...]

Today one more nation I have access to achieved an Ideological Radicality of 41, and it didn't receive said banner, either.

[Kesshite]

For what it's worth, I think it's a combo of your Authoritarianism and some other factor. Maybe your high rate of disappearance deaths.

[Drachmaland]

For what it's worth, I think it's a combo of your Authoritarianism and some other factor. Maybe your high rate of disappearance deaths.

The reason I haven't brought Authoritarianism into play here is simply because (i) this banner appears on nations at the extremes of that metric (e.g. Anarchies, Psychotic Dictatorships), and (ii) this banner appears in Anarchies with a nonzero value of Authoritarianism while nations like Drachmaland (which has zero Authoritarianism and has been classified as Anarchy at times) never received it. Last but not least, I don't think Authoritarianism could be a measure of strangeness. Finally, FWIW, both nations mentioned with Radicality of 41 that have not received said banner, are Civil Rights Lovefests atm.

[Drachmaland]

Today I had yet another nation of mine reaching an Ideological Radicality of 40 without getting the 'Not Sure What's Happening Here' banner, so I remembered our conversation and thought of contributing an idea.

The banner in question is this: http://www.nationstates.net/images/banners/d4.jpg
There are currently some other d-series banners (d1 to d7), which all of them deal with disastrous aspects of a nation (you can check 'em out yourselves, by manipulating aforementioned url).

So, for the guys here that love automation (I hope Trotterdam is reading this ), one way of getting big data of which nations receive this banner (so that one could check out their decisions that may have lead to this) is by using the query q=banners of the NS api and look for a <BANNER>d4</BANNER> value. OK, this way we won't find nations that do have it but have turned it off, but the most important aspect of such an endeavor would be imo to see which nations get it via answering issues (i.e., banner d4 gets added in their banners list). Just a thought.

[Annihilators of Chan Island]

Today I had yet another nation of mine reaching an Ideological Radicality of 40 without getting the 'Not Sure What's Happening Here' banner, so I remembered our conversation and thought of contributing an idea.

The banner in question is this: http://www.nationstates.net/images/banners/d4.jpg
There are currently some other d-series banners (d1 to d7), which all of them deal with disastrous aspects of a nation (you can check 'em out yourselves, by manipulating aforementioned url).

So, for the guys here that love automation (I hope Trotterdam is reading this ), one way of getting big data of which nations receive this banner (so that one could check out their decisions that may have lead to this) is by using the query q=banners of the NS api and look for a <BANNER>d4</BANNER> value. OK, this way we won't find nations that do have it but have turned it off, but the most important aspect of such an endeavor would be imo to see which nations get it via answering issues (i.e., banner d4 gets added in their banners list). Just a thought.

Personally I'm not into that sort of way too much detail, but this looks pretty helpful for anybody else who might want to find out a thing or two about banners. I'll be seeing how this develops.

[Drachmaland]

Personally I'm not into that sort of way too much detail, but this looks pretty helpful for anybody else who might want to find out a thing or two about banners. I'll be seeing how this develops.

Yup, actually my main intent was to spur the growth of a way to decipher the banner-awarding mechanism — for any banner.

[Sophisticated horrors]

...some radical outstanding theory :
there is no real "system" behind "banners"; since those "banners" seem to be of some importance mostly for some (or a lot of) people having nations in the game and trying to get "a specific assortation" or simply "as many as possible", as well as, just as shown in this thread, trying to find "a system behind", there´s just a crude measurement of some specific stats for getting banners, everything else is more "randomly". This will keep "interested players" occupied and "lets them have more fun" in some kind of figuring out.
Instead, there´s some kind of "random lottery", when you reach some specific stats; sometimes you get a "banner", sometimes not. Sometimes you lose it, sometimes not. And to keep up "randomness", you don´t get or loose it always on the same day you hit such a "stat mark", but sometimes over a set time period.
And, just to add for "conspiracy theorists" : of course there is the shady board of higher adepts (usually called "mods" or "administrators") sitting behind the curtains and laughing out maniacally about the humble and eager devoted "players" trying to figure out a system that doesn´t even exist...

[Undivulged Principles]

Perhaps you have simply not answered that particular issue or combination of issues until after the banners went into effect.

I have answered over 7000 issues in the past but only recently received the banner for answering 300 issues.

[Bears Armed]

I have answered over 7000 issues in the past but only recently received the banner for answering 300 issues.

That banner is for answering 300 different issues: Repeats don't count...

[Undivulged Principles]

I have answered over 7000 issues in the past but only recently received the banner for answering 300 issues.

That banner is for answering 300 different issues: Repeats don't count...

Oh yes, that must be it. And my puppet liberal liberals only developed a large transportation plan and religious tolerance over the last 80 days.

I turned off the notifications on my main nation when I started receiving banners for issues I answered years ago so I can't use a more obvious example from it. Though you can't get more obvious than those two i've used really. I mean I was a delegate for a year so obviously I have received an endorsement in the past but I don't have either banner because I was no longer in the WA (it was called some other strange name when I was delegate) when banners were instituted.

Next.

My point stands. You probably answered the issue or issues over a year ago so it didn't register until now.

[Trotterdam]

So, for the guys here that love automation (I hope Trotterdam is reading this ), one way of getting big data of which nations receive this banner (so that one could check out their decisions that may have lead to this) is by using the query q=banners of the NS api and look for a <BANNER>d4</BANNER> value. OK, this way we won't find nations that do have it but have turned it off, but the most important aspect of such an endeavor would be imo to see which nations get it via answering issues (i.e., banner d4 gets added in their banners list). Just a thought.

Sorry, comprehensively checking everything on everyone is a bit beyond my current system resources. Also, most banners are based on the accumulation of stats from many issues, so knowing the exact issue that made someone receive a banner isn't that useful. Usually it'll just be the straw that broke the camel's back.

Plus, I'm not even using the Rift theme, so banners barely exist as far as I'm concerned.

On another note, though: nice of them to include an option for retrieving the full banner list at once rather than a randomized selection. Can we get an equivalent of that for http://www.nationstates.net/cgi-bin/api.cgi?nation=testlandia&q=notable?

[Drachmaland]

...some radical outstanding theory :
there is no real "system" behind "banners"; since those "banners" seem to be of some importance mostly for some (or a lot of) people having nations in the game and trying to get "a specific assortation" or simply "as many as possible", as well as, just as shown in this thread, trying to find "a system behind", there´s just a crude measurement of some specific stats for getting banners, everything else is more "randomly". This will keep "interested players" occupied and "lets them have more fun" in some kind of figuring out.
Instead, there´s some kind of "random lottery", when you reach some specific stats; sometimes you get a "banner", sometimes not. Sometimes you lose it, sometimes not. And to keep up "randomness", you don´t get or loose it always on the same day you hit such a "stat mark", but sometimes over a set time period.
And, just to add for "conspiracy theorists" : of course there is the shady board of higher adepts (usually called "mods" or "administrators") sitting behind the curtains and laughing out maniacally about the humble and eager devoted "players" trying to figure out a system that doesn´t even exist...

1. Randomness (and trying either proving or disproving its existence — and even finding rules governing its modus operandi) is *also* something that can be the object of a data study. One only needs data, time, resources, and determination.

2. Of course the people in-the-know could be laughing at any attempt from outsiders to decipher a mechanism which they (i.e., the insiders) are the only ones who *truly* know its inner workings of. But that has to do with them, not anyone else.

So, for the guys here that love automation (I hope Trotterdam is reading this ), one way of getting big data of which nations receive this banner (so that one could check out their decisions that may have lead to this) is by using the query q=banners of the NS api and look for a <BANNER>d4</BANNER> value. OK, this way we won't find nations that do have it but have turned it off, but the most important aspect of such an endeavor would be imo to see which nations get it via answering issues (i.e., banner d4 gets added in their banners list). Just a thought.

Sorry, comprehensively checking everything on everyone is a bit beyond my current system resources. Also, most banners are based on the accumulation of stats from many issues, so knowing the exact issue that made someone receive a banner isn't that useful. Usually it'll just be the straw that broke the camel's back. [...]

On another note, though: nice of them to include an option for retrieving the full banner list at once rather than a randomized selection. Can we get an equivalent of that for http://www.nationstates.net/cgi-bin/api.cgi?nation=testlandia&q=notable?

1. Yes, their award is triggered by something that could be accumulating for quite long — but when one has a number of such triggerings, that are connected to issue effects that are not identical (and they don't affect all NS stats at once), one may find some common denominator which can be enlightening.

2. Yes, count me in when we ask for a comprehensive list in the q=notable query!

[Drachmaland]

After having received said banner in other nations as well (those actually had Ideological Radicality at 40), I now believe that being eligible for a banner doesn't mean you'll get it immediately.

[Whovian Tardisia]

Had a puppet that received this banner on day 2 or 3 of its existence. Was designed to have Orwellian levels of Communism, but has a massive military and no private sector.