NationStates

Posted: **Sat Feb 21, 2015 10:45 am**

Why are the outcomes of your choices so damn extreme? Just had a choice about tax rates and I chose that high income earners should pay a bit more and poor populace pay a bit less. But the outcome was that my high income earners pay 100% of their income in taxes.... Seriously!?!?!? That's just stupid, and doesn't make any logical sense at all. I thought his "game" was to be somewhat simulated with a few "extremeness" to it but god damn. Where is the line draw? That choice alone just almost made me want to quit this game. Hell now I spend a few hours trying to decide what to chose in a legislation because I know the outcome will only cripple my country, not help it.

Seriously the line has to be drawn somewhere. I already have one Issue I need to resolved and I'm already afraid on what the choices will be.

Posted: **Sat Feb 21, 2015 10:47 am**

The Hellsing Empire wrote:Why are the outcomes of your choices so damn extreme? Just had a choice about tax rates and I chose that high income earners should pay a bit more and poor populace pay a bit less. But the outcome was that my high income earners pay 100% of their income in taxes.... Seriously!?!?!? That's just stupid, and doesn't make any logical sense at all. I thought his "game" was to be somewhat simulated with a few "extremeness" to it but god damn. Where is the line draw? That choice alone just almost made me want to quit this game. Hell now I spend a few hours trying to decide what to chose in a legislation because I know the outcome will only cripple my country, not help it.

Seriously the line has to be drawn somewhere. I already have one Issue I need to resolved and I'm already afraid on what the choices will be.

The game is supposed to have extreme outcomes. That's what makes it quirky.

Posted: **Sat Feb 21, 2015 10:48 am**

This "game" is also heavily satirical, the results do not necessarily reflect actual programmed results anyway.

Plus, you can ignore the stats all together when roleplaying.

Posted: **Sat Feb 21, 2015 10:49 am**

Icrum wrote:The game is supposed to have extreme outcomes. That's what makes it quirky.

That can also make it unenjoyable. I mean here is one of the choices in my next issue:

Seriously what the hell does that even mean? How can I make a logical choice when I don't even know what is going to happen. Let alone how extreme the outcome is going to be.

Posted: **Sat Feb 21, 2015 10:49 am**

Valrifell wrote:This "game" is also heavily satirical, the results do not necessarily reflect actual programmed results anyway.

Plus, you can ignore the stats all together when roleplaying.

I can't, because my RP is based completely off my nations stats.

Posted: **Sat Feb 21, 2015 10:52 am**

The Hellsing Empire wrote:
Valrifell wrote:This "game" is also heavily satirical, the results do not necessarily reflect actual programmed results anyway.

Plus, you can ignore the stats all together when roleplaying.

I can't, because my RP is based completely off my nations stats.

Most people (if any) won't hold you to the game stats. RP on this site has a much wider scope than the in game issues.

Posted: **Sat Feb 21, 2015 10:55 am**

Luna Amore wrote:
The Hellsing Empire wrote:
I can't, because my RP is based completely off my nations stats.

Most people (if any) won't hold you to the game stats. RP on this site has a much wider scope than the in game issues.

But I do. I'm trying to make my empire Strong, Powerful, Wealthy, and Safe to live in. But I can't if I don't know how bad these choices are going to make it especially when I think I'm making the best choice for my people.

Posted: **Sat Feb 21, 2015 11:01 am**

That's fair, but if you're going to RP off the stats generated from a site that satirizes real-life, rather than being realistic, don't expect to get realistic stats.

Posted: **Sat Feb 21, 2015 11:01 am**

The Hellsing Empire wrote:
But I do. I'm trying to make my empire Strong, Powerful, Wealthy, and Safe to live in. But I can't if I don't know how bad these choices are going to make it especially when I think I'm making the best choice for my people.

The dismiss button is your friend, use it often. If you are only presented with bad choices, click the dismiss button. Only select options that you are completely happy with.

Posted: **Sat Feb 21, 2015 11:05 am**

Safraen wrote:
The Hellsing Empire wrote:
But I do. I'm trying to make my empire Strong, Powerful, Wealthy, and Safe to live in. But I can't if I don't know how bad these choices are going to make it especially when I think I'm making the best choice for my people.

The dismiss button is your friend, use it often. If you are only presented with bad choices, click the dismiss button. Only select options that you are completely happy with.

I agree that if you have a very specific idea of what you want, the dismiss button is going to be used a lot. But every issue choice is wrong in some way. It's one of the hallmarks of the game.

From the FAQ:

FAQ wrote:I don't agree with any of the options on this issue!

Dismiss it! This is the equivalent of ignoring an issue until people stop talking about it. If you were a real government, you'd do this all the time, of course, but in NationStates it's more interesting if you actually respond to issues.

Why is my nation so weird?

Everything is exaggerated a little. Well, okay, a lot. Your decisions affect your nation very strongly, so your country might seem like a more extreme version of what you were aiming for. Unless you have radical politics. In which case you probably think nothing's wrong.

My decision had unintended consequences!

Yeah, that'll happen. For one thing, see "Why is my nation so weird?" above. For another, pretty much every decision you make will involve a trade-off of some kind. It's kind of an exercise in choosing the best of a bunch of bad options. You might find this frustrating, especially if you're the kind of person who thinks the solutions to all the world's problems are obvious.

Posted: **Sat Feb 21, 2015 11:08 am**

Safraen wrote:The dismiss button is your friend, use it often. If you are only presented with bad choices, click the dismiss button. Only select options that you are completely happy with.

That totally defeats the purpose of this game. Besides the choice about the Issue I made for the Taxes I was happy with, I didn't know I would fuck over my own citizens like that. Every single choice I make I am happy with, the outcomes that are generated by it I am not happy with. So I don't second guess the choices I make, but completely doubt if the choice I made was good or not.

Posted: **Sat Feb 21, 2015 11:09 am**

The Hellsing Empire wrote:So I don't second guess the choices I make, but completely doubt if the choice I made was good or not.

That's exactly the response we want to issues.

Posted: **Sat Feb 21, 2015 11:11 am**

The Hellsing Empire wrote:
Safraen wrote:The dismiss button is your friend, use it often. If you are only presented with bad choices, click the dismiss button. Only select options that you are completely happy with.

That totally defeats the purpose of this game. Besides the choice about the Issue I made for the Taxes I was happy with, I didn't know I would fuck over my own citizens like that. Every single choice I make I am happy with, the outcomes that are generated by it I am not happy with. So I don't second guess the choices I make, but completely doubt if the choice I made was good or not.

Welcome to NationStates. :clap:

Posted: **Sat Feb 21, 2015 11:12 am**

The Hellsing Empire wrote:
Valrifell wrote:This "game" is also heavily satirical, the results do not necessarily reflect actual programmed results anyway.

Plus, you can ignore the stats all together when roleplaying.

I can't, because my RP is based completely off my nations stats.

Don't RP based off of stats. They're extremely unrealistic. Make your own stats.

Posted: **Sat Feb 21, 2015 11:13 am**

Luna Amore wrote:
The Hellsing Empire wrote:So I don't second guess the choices I make, but completely doubt if the choice I made was good or not.

That's exactly the response we want to issues.

To further back up the point from the How to Write an Issue thread in the Got Issues? forum:

Sirocco wrote:What makes a good issue

One of the key factors of NationStates is that no matter what you decide, there will be a lot of people unhappy with your decision. Every option should be wrong in some way, and there should NEVER be a case where one option is 'right' and another 'wrong', because that's not what NationStates is about. Playing the 'right' way would imply that NationStates is a game with a way to win and this is not the case. NS is not a game you should be able to 'win' in any sense.

Sirocco wrote:Is it a difficult choice? If your idea involves an imaginary power source, for example, which is cheap, clean, efficient etc. and therefore eradicates the point of choosing anything else then it's not usable. Every choice should be the wrong choice in some way or another. The issue should make the reader, after making his decision, think he should maybe have picked another one. This can be tricky, but don't worry: that's what editors are for. :wink:

Posted: **Sat Feb 21, 2015 11:14 am**

Luna Amore wrote:
The Hellsing Empire wrote:So I don't second guess the choices I make, but completely doubt if the choice I made was good or not.

That's exactly the response we want to issues.

It shouldn't. The choices should be based off how you want your nation to be or your personality. Hell the first 30 generic issues you get when starting a nation are easy, but some of these are just so damn impossible.

Posted: **Sat Feb 21, 2015 11:16 am**

Zunkwentania wrote:
The Hellsing Empire wrote:
I can't, because my RP is based completely off my nations stats.

Don't RP based off of stats. They're extremely unrealistic. Make your own stats.

I can't because the Empire is the bases of my RP. So if the stats of my Military says their weak, then I will avoid wars. I'm already restricted in what I can do with RP becuase of my people (read my nations factbook about the people in my Empire) and you will know that many RPers keep things like that against RPing rules.

Posted: **Sat Feb 21, 2015 11:18 am**

The Hellsing Empire wrote:It shouldn't.

You're right.

And…???

Posted: **Sat Feb 21, 2015 11:20 am**

Look at this Issue:

How the hell am I going to make a choice if I don't know what the hell is being said in choice 3. What the F- are they talking about? For all I know choosing that will start a race war within my empire.

Posted: **Sat Feb 21, 2015 11:21 am**

The Hellsing Empire wrote:
Luna Amore wrote:Most people (if any) won't hold you to the game stats. RP on this site has a much wider scope than the in game issues.

But I do. I'm trying to make my empire Strong, Powerful, Wealthy, and Safe to live in. But I can't if I don't know how bad these choices are going to make it especially when I think I'm making the best choice for my people.

I've been playing this game for 6 years now; if you don't like an issue, dismiss it. Also the decisions' effects are just extreme in general. You've gotta feel your way through them so to speak. Keep choosing solutions you feel fit until everything just falls into place, and trust me it will fall into place.

Posted: **Sat Feb 21, 2015 11:25 am**

ImperialistSalvia wrote:
The Hellsing Empire wrote:
But I do. I'm trying to make my empire Strong, Powerful, Wealthy, and Safe to live in. But I can't if I don't know how bad these choices are going to make it especially when I think I'm making the best choice for my people.

I've been playing this game for 6 years now; if you don't like an issue, dismiss it. Also the decisions' effects are just extreme in general. You've gotta feel your way through them so to speak. Keep choosing solutions you feel fit until everything just falls into place, and trust me it will fall into place.

How many times do I have to say it?

IT'S NOT THE ISSUES THAT I HAVE A PROBLEM WITH, IT'S THE OUTCOMES!

I don't have a problem choosing an issue, its the outcome that forces me to think if I should chose it or not.

Posted: **Sat Feb 21, 2015 11:28 am**

The Hellsing Empire wrote:I don't have a problem choosing an issue, its the outcome that forces me to think if I should chose it or not.

This is the aim of the game.

All decisions you make as leader of your nation may have unexpected consequences. This is true of real life! Political decisions often have strange and rather unexpected results. And yes, this game does exaggerate them, but that's one of the designed and intended quirks of NationStates.

Posted: **Sat Feb 21, 2015 11:39 am**

Sanctaria wrote:
The Hellsing Empire wrote:I don't have a problem choosing an issue, its the outcome that forces me to think if I should chose it or not.

This is the aim of the game.

All decisions you make as leader of your nation may have unexpected consequences. This is true of real life! Political decisions often have strange and rather unexpected results. And yes, this game does exaggerate them, but that's one of the designed and intended quirks of NationStates.

You call 100% tax rate exaggerated or a quirk? It's down right stupidity.

As I said, the line needs to be drawn somewhere.

Posted: **Sat Feb 21, 2015 11:43 am**

The Hellsing Empire wrote:
Sanctaria wrote:This is the aim of the game.

All decisions you make as leader of your nation may have unexpected consequences. This is true of real life! Political decisions often have strange and rather unexpected results. And yes, this game does exaggerate them, but that's one of the designed and intended quirks of NationStates.

You call 100% tax rate exaggerated or a quirk? It's down right stupidity.

As I said, the line needs to be drawn somewhere.

Issues will appear that will allow you to decrease that tax rate. Nothing is stopping you choosing those options.

Posted: **Sat Feb 21, 2015 11:44 am**

The Hellsing Empire wrote:
Sanctaria wrote:This is the aim of the game.

All decisions you make as leader of your nation may have unexpected consequences. This is true of real life! Political decisions often have strange and rather unexpected results. And yes, this game does exaggerate them, but that's one of the designed and intended quirks of NationStates.

You call 100% tax rate exaggerated or a quirk? It's down right stupidity.

As I said, the line needs to be drawn somewhere.

I don't know what to tell you at this point. This has been the nature of the game since it started over 12 years ago. That 100% tax rate result is in one of the original 31 issues written by Max. It's an exaggerated and quirky game.

NationStates

Why are outcomes so Extreme?

Why are outcomes so Extreme?