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An Interview with Thedoc: 13 Years of NPO

Talk about regional management and politics, raider/defender gameplay, and other game-related matters.
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MMXVI
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Ex-Nation

An Interview with Thedoc: 13 Years of NPO

Postby MMXVI » Sat Sep 17, 2016 10:49 am

While the rise of Francos Spain to Blessed and Chosen Leader of the Pacific, Emperor of the NPO and numerous other titles which will not be listed here is a widely covered event of NS history, the tale of his immediate predecessor, Thedoc, is less known. Some call him a lethargic, foreign tyrant. Others call him a dull Delegate, prone to bouts of inactivity who did not contribute to building a community in the Pacific, and thus was (rightfully so) overthrown by Francos and his revolutionary comrades. Others, such as this obviously biased towards the anti-NPO spectrum of NS player, does not have a clear opinion on Thedoc. I met the man behind the nation two years ago on another region, living his NS days in relative peace, devoting himself to roleplaying and other activities in the NS world.

Discussing his past as Delegate of the Pacific was not easy, and for those two years I struggled to make him speak to me, as a friend would confine to a friend. However, with the recent anniversary of 13 years since the New Pacific Order was declared by Francos and his core of followers in what would become the longest-living government institution in Gameplay history, he decided to open himself to me, and discuss at least some aspects of what happened back then, as well as his own side of the story. Although I am most certain that numerous players will rise to call this interview a fraud, a sham and various other quite rude words aimed at making this interview seem a fake, it is not. The real Thedoc has finally decided to speak to me, thirteen years after the events that transpired in those early days of NS.

. . .


MMXVI: Before beginning with the questions, I would like to thank you for granting me this interview. I consider it a personal honor that you are willing to talk to me about events that took place more than a decade ago and which are very controversial.

Thedoc: Yes, of course. I think that my side of the story should be heard, because let's be honest, it never is :P

MMXVI: Quite right. But I will not begin from the events of August '03 because I want to know more about how you came to be Delegate of the Pacific. How did you ascend the delegacy of the Pacific? Early game seems to have been quite chaotic and as such, I am not sure if a "governing body" of the Pacific existed.

Thedoc: You're right. Basically at the time, while there was chaos, things were actually pretty tranquil. It was a new site, a new frontier, and people were still learning about the site. Having said that, there was, since the beginning of the site, a clique of people that made up the original Pacific group, of which I was one. It was from that group of people that the original delegates arose, including myself!

MMXVI: I see. Since you said this, do you believe that it was the existance of this clique which fueled later-NPO propaganda about an oligarchy of players who controlled the Pacific?

Thedoc: Oh of course. It was basically a matter of this: there was a group that was perceived to be "in control" and another group that wanted it for themselves. But we were naive and didn't understand the lengths that the "NPO" crowd would go to get it. When TSL and myself were delegates, we valued openness and freedom of thought. We were pretty hands off and let people do what they wanted, say what they wanted to say and organize however they wanted. That freedom was taken advantage of, as history would show.


MMXVI: When I first found you on a certain IRC channel and we discussed this subject, it appeared to me that you felt betrayed from Francos. From what is known, Francos was one of the numerous players endo-surfing in the Pacific, and he was ejected because of this. However, he was not banned which allowed him to return and seize control. Was this the result of your open policies and do you regret not taking more drastic action?

Thedoc: Here's the thing. I felt betrayed because, in my opinion, I was the first (and last) delegate of the Pacific to actually care about promoting a free and diverse regional community that valued and respected everyone's opinions, concerns and beliefs. Franco took advantage of that, and plotted and schemed behind my back in order to seize power for himself. I didn't ban him though because my conscious wouldn't allow it. I don't like banning people, especially from their homes and communities. Do I regret it? I think I did for a while, but then I accepted it and moved on. Life is too short to live with the pain of regret. Besides, it's been 13 years, it's been so long since I've even been there properly.

MMXVI: I understand. However, things went as they did, and you found yourself ejected from the Pacific. How much did you participate in the attempts of the group now termed "Pacifican exiles" to take back the region, and when did you stop the attempts to take back the region?

Thedoc: I was complacent with it, but not especially involved. I didn't like the idea of "raiding" or trying to return to power the way Franco entered it. I was an elected delegate, and I didn't want to be a part of that game, so after it failed initially, I just let it go. I think the thing I regret the most though is that my story got smothered and stamped out. People say I was a bad delegate, or that I was incompetent, inactive or inattentive, but I think I was far from that. Did you know that myself and my comrades created one of the first off-site forums for NS? I tried to build a community, and it became twisted with lies and deceit.

MMXVI: Of course, something which was used against you by the Government of the Pacific as it was established to portray you as some sort of manevolent oligarch. For the two final questions, I would like to have your opinion on two subjects. Do you believe that eventually the NPO will have to reform in order to sustain it's grip over the Pacific, and is in the end, the NPO what is best for the Pacific? In other words, do you think that at the time there is no better alternative than the NPO's rule in the Pacific?

Thedoc: Honestly, they've had on and off control of the Pacific for so long, and have consistently weeded out anything that's not them, that the NPO IS the Pacific. Of course, the NPO isn't best for the Pacific, perhaps in the same way that the PRC isn't good for China. But at this point, it's far too engrained. The "native" Pacificans are all gone for the most part, with that community being thoroughly erroded. Maybe something new and fresh will come about, but if history is any indication, the NPO is here to stay.

MMXVI: At this point, we have reached the end of this interview. I would like, again, to thank you for granting me this interview although relations between us were rocky at times and I would personally place them in a grey zone at the moment. If you have any closing statements, now is the time :p

Thedoc: A grey zone? How flattering :P

And you're welcome. I think many people will be skeptical that Thedoc still lurks around all these years later.


. . .


And this is how the interview was concluded.

Thedoc had a busy schedule and although we managed to exchange a few off-interview words and talk about things of past and future, he eventually went AFK and bid me goodbye. On my part, I can only thank him so much for granting me this interview. The NPO has held control over the Pacific for so long, that the voices of those who opposed it back in the day are no longer among us, and as such we can only have so many propaganda pieces and articles about userite tyranny (although NPO seems to no longer accept this term), tyranny and the liberating power of the Body Republic and the Christ-like savior of Pacifica Franco. I hope that those of you who read it will appreciate what the former Delegate had to say!

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Cormactopia II
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Postby Cormactopia II » Sat Sep 17, 2016 11:10 am

MMXVI wrote:Thedoc: Honestly, they've had on and off control of the Pacific for so long, and have consistently weeded out anything that's not them, that the NPO IS the Pacific. Of course, the NPO isn't best for the Pacific, perhaps in the same way that the PRC isn't good for China. But at this point, it's far too engrained. The "native" Pacificans are all gone for the most part, with that community being thoroughly erroded. Maybe something new and fresh will come about, but if history is any indication, the NPO is here to stay.

There's something a little bit hilarious about an (alleged) former Delegate who refused to even use his ban button to protect the Pacific, and who then just turned his back and walked away, pontificating thirteen years later about what is best for the Pacific. Not even to mention his assertion that the only true natives of the Pacific are the people who were there and committed to his government thirteen years ago, and that no one who has come since is a native. You would think after thirteen years of thinking about this, Thedoc would have arrived at better developed conclusions, if in fact this is even Thedoc. Which brings me to my next point...

MMXVI wrote:I think many people will be skeptical that Thedoc still lurks around all these years later.

Color me extremely skeptical of an anonymous puppet claiming to have interviewed Thedoc. I don't suppose you have any way of verifying this claim, or of explaining how you managed to find Thedoc still participating elsewhere in NationStates, or of revealing who you are?

This appears to be a piece of not terribly well crafted propaganda against the Pacific Order, the goal of which is unclear. Surely you don't believe this "interview" will have any actual impact on the Pacific Order.
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MMXVI
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Ex-Nation

Postby MMXVI » Sat Sep 17, 2016 11:15 am

Cormactopia II wrote:There's something a little bit hilarious about an (alleged) former Delegate who refused to even use his ban button to protect the Pacific, and who then just turned his back and walked away, pontificating thirteen years later about what is best for the Pacific. Not even to mention his assertion that the only true natives of the Pacific are the people who were there and committed to his government thirteen years ago, and that no one who has come since is a native. You would think after thirteen years of thinking about this, Thedoc would have arrived at better developed conclusions, if in fact this is even Thedoc. Which brings me to my next point...
I cannot make a comment on what he said other that I agree with what he said to an extent.

Cormactopia II wrote:Color me extremely skeptical of an anonymous puppet claiming to have interviewed Thedoc. I don't suppose you have any way of verifying this claim, or of explaining how you managed to find Thedoc still participating elsewhere in NationStates, or of revealing who you are?

This appears to be a piece of not terribly well crafted propaganda against the Pacific Order, the goal of which is unclear. Surely you don't believe this "interview" will have any actual impact on the Pacific Order.
It is true that I cannot verify my claim that it is truly him, because I simply know that it is him because of other circumstances and because of having previous interactions with him in the past. I cannot explain where I found him because that would give his current nation away and he does not wish to do that. As I said, it took two years to eventually persuade him to talk to me about all this.

And you may think as you want, if I was indeed making propaganda do trust me when I say that I would have made it better, having experience in writing that kind of pieces. This is simply me interviewing a person who holds his own views and nothing more.

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Bhang Bhang Duc
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Postby Bhang Bhang Duc » Sat Sep 17, 2016 11:59 am

Cormactopia II wrote:Color me extremely skeptical of an anonymous puppet claiming to have interviewed Thedoc. I don't suppose you have any way of verifying this claim, or of explaining how you managed to find Thedoc still participating elsewhere in NationStates, or of revealing who you are?


This nation was founded in TWP today, so I'm with you Cormac; somewhat sceptical.
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MMXVI
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Postby MMXVI » Sat Sep 17, 2016 12:22 pm

Bhang Bhang Duc wrote:
Cormactopia II wrote:Color me extremely skeptical of an anonymous puppet claiming to have interviewed Thedoc. I don't suppose you have any way of verifying this claim, or of explaining how you managed to find Thedoc still participating elsewhere in NationStates, or of revealing who you are?


This nation was founded in TWP today, so I'm with you Cormac; somewhat sceptical.
That is only natural, because as I said to my response to Cormac, I cannot really prove to you that this is Thedoc.

My only hope is that is is not dismissed at once as a mediocre piece of propaganda but that it is read carefully and people draw their own conclusions.

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We Are Not the NSA
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Postby We Are Not the NSA » Sat Sep 17, 2016 1:20 pm

MMXVI wrote:
Bhang Bhang Duc wrote:
This nation was founded in TWP today, so I'm with you Cormac; somewhat sceptical.
That is only natural, because as I said to my response to Cormac, I cannot really prove to you that this is Thedoc.

My only hope is that is is not dismissed at once as a mediocre piece of propaganda but that it is read carefully and people draw their own conclusions.

After a single read, I've noticed enough grammatical, spelling and syntax similarities to at least question whether there were actually two people involved in this "interview".

Regardless, calling this piece "mediocre", either as propaganda or as an interview, is a stretch. The intro promises to give us the untold story of the last delegate of The Pacific before the NPO, yet it never tells us anything that couldn't easily be inferred from a third party's perspective. The original delegates of TP were all friends? They would have to be the most active in the community, so that's a given. And that's it. There's nothing about Thedoc that I didn't know already.

You move right from his explanation of how he became delegate (which was basically, "I was part of a small group of powerful individuals, who totally weren't oligarchs despite the fact that I am basically defining an oligarchy.") to asking about how mean the NPO was. A "clique" is defined specifically as an exclusive group of individuals, implying that it is difficult to join, and that it does not accept all people. An oligarchy is a form of government where there is a specific clique that controls everything. I would have jumped at that. If TP really was free and open, the NPO wouldn't have had to rise up against TP's leadership to gain power. Thedoc almost admitted that he was a member of an oligarchy and you just let it go.

From that point forward, every chance that either you or Thedoc got you took swings at the NPO. My favorite part is when Thedoc implies that the native community of TP has been destroyed, trying to evoke thoughts of what happens to raided regions to compare to what the NPO did.

Whether or not you actually managed to land an interview with the real Thedoc, this is still a poorly masked propaganda piece. More emphasis is put on criticizing how the NPO came to power than is put on actually establishing a story of what happened. It is impossible to do as you ask and "appreciate what the former Delegate had to say" because he didn't say anything.
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Lord Ravenclaw
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Postby Lord Ravenclaw » Sat Sep 17, 2016 2:26 pm

Interesting interview, and interesting timing - given events that are afoot in the Feeders right now.

Now there are only a short list of players who would even make such an attempt, and of those, only one has a reason to hide behind an unknown nation.

I'm not so quick to believe this. The chances of TheDoc still being around and willing to talk to anyone are slim at best. Even should this be a legitimate interview, it is far too vague and it appears slanted to try and invoke mistrust of The Pacific's government.

For goodness sake, the Pacific Order is the government of The Pacific. They've survived thirteen years, and have more than cemented their legitimacy.
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Belschaft
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Postby Belschaft » Sat Sep 17, 2016 3:06 pm

Any chance of this possibly being legit vanished when it was published via a brand new puppet nation. Nothing short of Thedoc's nation being resurrected could make this legitimate.
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Neo Kervoskia
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Postby Neo Kervoskia » Sat Sep 17, 2016 6:40 pm

And here I thought I cornered the market on fake interviews.
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Todd McCloud
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Postby Todd McCloud » Sat Sep 17, 2016 9:41 pm

Neo Kervoskia wrote:And here I thought I cornered the market on fake interviews.

Hey I've had a few zingers in the day. But yeah, I have trouble believing this one.
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Drasnia
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Postby Drasnia » Sat Sep 17, 2016 10:46 pm

Yeah, generally when somebody stays odd saying "No guys, this is actually true!" it usually means it's not true.
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Pergamon
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Postby Pergamon » Sun Sep 18, 2016 3:03 am

It must have took some time for you to create this defamatory pamphlet of unbelievable bad quality.
PACIFICA STAND STRONG

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Black Mekhet
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Postby Black Mekhet » Sun Sep 18, 2016 6:41 am

Pergamon wrote:It must have took some time for you to create this defamatory pamphlet of unbelievable bad quality.


Pfft, if I didn't like the NPO I could totally one up this guy. I would have just said."Teh NpO is suxxorz ". Can't get too much worse quality than that.
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Free4All
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Postby Free4All » Sun Sep 18, 2016 7:10 am

I agree with prior responders that this interview looks fishy, but for different reasons.

This dark piece of heinous pro-NPO propaganda cleverly sneaks in the perception that TheDoc recognizes the NPO as the legitimate rulers of the Pacific, and thus discourages the righteous from standing up against the dictatorial soul-crushing tyranny which the men, women, and children of the Pacific have been suffering from all these years, and continue to endure in anguish to this very day.

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This is the music of a people who will not be slaves again!
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there is a life about to start when tomorrow comes..."


One day the downtrodden of the Pacific will march on the homes of the bourgeoisie to reclaim their freedom, the FREEdom 4 ALL!

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Cormactopia II
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Postby Cormactopia II » Sun Sep 18, 2016 7:15 am

Seeing Ballo back in-character for that response made this terrible fake interview worth it. :P
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Eluvatar
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Postby Eluvatar » Sun Sep 18, 2016 11:48 am

Cormactopia II wrote:Seeing Ballo back in-character for that response made this terrible fake interview worth it. :P

Agreed.
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Unibot III
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Postby Unibot III » Sun Sep 18, 2016 5:25 pm

I'm not sure whether this is authentic or not; but I believe Thedoc remained in the game for a little while longer, playing with the Pacific Army before CTE'ing - Crazygirl would know. Some veteran roleplayers are actually veteran gameplayers if you dig deep (the old NPO crowd had roots in USSR and the first NS WW) - it makes for a fun surprise when you go to train them and they were trained by Ostendt when you were still in diapers.

The facts are accurately stated as far as I can see, but there's nothing here that wasn't already on public record in Network Radio, so it's not like this couldn't be falsified. The coordination between delegates in early Pacific is little known but true - although I don't think Thedoc would have been as aware of Francos Spain as he suggested (he may have known him under his previous, unidentified account - and there were a brief coups like Franco's earlier that year - that very well could have been him.) Francos (the account that made him notorious) basically moved to the Pacific from Spain (the UCR) shortly before endo-tarting- he was a mid-level invader with the Farkers, who was connected with Mammo and roleplayed with RedCommunist.

I don't understand why the interviewer wouldn't want their name attached the interview, however - and that's what discredits the interview in my mind. (Unless the interviewer is the gameplayer/roleplayer I think it is - in which HOW DARE YOU FIND THEDOC AND NOT TELL MEEEEEEEEEEEEEE - after my big Francos lecture in Vienna too. *shakes his fist*)

(Someone flagged this interview to me asking if I were MMXVI - I am not.)
Last edited by Unibot III on Mon Sep 19, 2016 10:11 am, edited 6 times in total.
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Postby Pierconium » Mon Sep 19, 2016 5:00 am

No.

Just no.
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Scardino
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Postby Scardino » Mon Sep 19, 2016 12:43 pm

If this interview is authentic, it cements my already positive opinion of the NPO.
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Myrth
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Postby Myrth » Tue Sep 20, 2016 11:05 am

I choose not to question the legitimacy of the interview. If Thedoc is still out there, then good for him for the comparative lack of sour grapes. A lot less bile than former ADNers showed for the NPO. If it isn't him, then this 'interview' doesn't really accomplish anything.

The question of inclusiveness is an interesting one. The NPO and Francos Spain were under constant attack from all fronts and thus naturally they had to be wary of anyone outside the inner circle. As time has gone by and certain elements (many of whom are still in the game) accepted defeat and gave up, each successive government has been able to open up a bit more. The early NPO's methods were no more than a response to the underhand tactics of their enemies. Now there is no credible threat to the continuation of the NPO regime, we're able to be far more inclusive.
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All Good People
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Postby All Good People » Tue Sep 20, 2016 1:56 pm

I once wrote up an interview of myself for fun. It was never posted though. IOW, it's not hard to fake an interview.

No matter I suppose, but in 2016 Thedoc's time in TP is not terribly relevant, and this provided nothing newsworthy. If Thedoc is out there, and he may be as other long time players are under different nations, all we can do is wish him well and hope he's enjoying NS. Just as we wish the player known as Francos Spain well out there somewhere in NS.

Now, if someone could get both of them together for a chat session for the next NS Worlds Fair, that might be interesting.
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North East Somerset
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Postby North East Somerset » Tue Sep 20, 2016 7:19 pm

Unibot III wrote:(Someone flagged this interview to me asking if I were MMXVI - I am not.)


Not sure whether I actually believe this tbh, the style seems very Unibot-esque, and I'm not sure how many other people there are out there obsessed with early NPO history. :p
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Elegarth
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Postby Elegarth » Tue Sep 20, 2016 8:48 pm

Nothing said here is "untold", if the words are being twisted to make it look positive, this has always been the official story: thedoc belonged to a clique that didn't do much with the delegacy and allowed chaos (total leniency) to spread over the region. A choice of words was made in each side, as usual of any story, but there is nothing new or revealing in this lame attempt at cheap propaganda.
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Unibot III
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Postby Unibot III » Sat Sep 24, 2016 8:44 pm

North East Somerset wrote:
Unibot III wrote:(Someone flagged this interview to me asking if I were MMXVI - I am not.)


Not sure whether I actually believe this tbh, the style seems very Unibot-esque, and I'm not sure how many other people there are out there obsessed with early NPO history. :p


I thought GR was mad when he brought it to my attention, but after reading it, I'll admit it made sense for some to think it might be me. I did follow early NPO history pretty close. And I did do a anonymous interview with Eurosoviets once. But nope: not me. *raises his hands and pleads innocence* I'm not really playing NS at all. The thread's mysterious OP has since got a hold of me by telegram but has also gone inactive...
Last edited by Unibot III on Sat Sep 24, 2016 8:44 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Factbook // Collected works // Gameplay Alignment Test //
9 GA Res., 14 SC Res. // Headlines from Unibot // WASC HQ: A Guide

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✯ Duty is Eternal, Justice is Imminent: UDL


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