The Invaders | Ego Sum Ideo Vici

[Shadow Lance the Dank God of Swag]

Could we please stop discussing Cora and the Predator scandal in the Invader Network thread? Thanks.

the point is you guys are talking to him and if you take one wrong step, you ruin it for everyone, don't disappoint.

[Vetelo]

Could we please stop discussing Cora and the Predator scandal in the Invader Network thread? Thanks.

the point is you guys are talking to him and if you take one wrong step, you ruin it for everyone, don't disappoint.

How many times do I have to drill it into your heads that I've ALREADY BLOCKED HIM. So has Vac.

[Shadow Lance the Dank God of Swag]

the point is you guys are talking to him and if you take one wrong step, you ruin it for everyone, don't disappoint.

How many times do I have to drill it into your heads that I've ALREADY BLOCKED HIM. So has Vac.

that can be a lie, and you have talked to him a while after pred. just don't disappoint.

[Vetelo]

How many times do I have to drill it into your heads that I've ALREADY BLOCKED HIM. So has Vac.

that can be a lie, and you have talked to him months after this

Well, you're just going to have to take my word for it, aren't you? Anything anyone said in this thread could have been a lie. -.-

[Funkadelia]

Could we please stop discussing Cora and the Predator scandal in the Invader Network thread? Thanks.

Your and other Invader Network members involvement with Cora is what caused this entire discussion. Perhaps you should look to yourself to blame for this conversation.

[Vetelo]

Could we please stop discussing Cora and the Predator scandal in the Invader Network thread? Thanks.

Your and other Invader Network members involvement with Cora is what caused this entire discussion. Perhaps you should look to yourself to blame for this conversation.

No, some dishonest fendahawk leaked the chat. That's how this discussion started. And REALLY? Just me? There was 15 other people in that chat, at least.

[Vaculatestar64]

How many times do I have to drill it into your heads that I've ALREADY BLOCKED HIM. So has Vac.

that can be a lie, and you have talked to him a while after pred. just don't disappoint.

I can provide a screenshot if you would like. Otherwise I strongly suggest you take me at my word and go sit down somewhere and get ready to raid.

[T E Lawrence]

"All publicity is good publicity."

I don't mind this, but do shift the conversation back towards why the matter's relevant to The Invaders. From my perspective, this post here was the last.

-- Lawrence.

[Khronion]

Halcones was a cheater before he introduced Predator to The Black Riders in 2014, right? If you then argue about how the use of Predator by select members of the DEN and The Black Hawks after the DoS of Halcones brought us to the point of a crackdown by NS Moderation, then do explain why people like Aurum Rider, Gladio, Wetwork, and others who utilized the tool only during their pre-DoS Halcones, TBR days were punished.

-- Lawrence.

Thank you for responding. It is an appreciated change from The Invaders' normally observed PR policy of ignoring any and all concerns.

I believe most players understand why all those who used Predator were subjected to punishment -- because breaking the rules results in punishment. The existence of an update tool distributed through the on-site forum itself seriously casts doubt on your insinuation that it is the mere presence of scripts that will lead to the death of raiding through Moderator action, to say nothing of the sheer inaccuracy of these tools in the current variance-ridden update environment.

But let's go back to the original ruling, which was quite extensive and clear in its reasoning for why broad-based action was taken.

A culture of rule-breaking has become institutionalised in these regions, where using illegal scripts to gain unfair advantages and collaborating with DOS players is considered the norm. Punishing the players involved last time was not enough, and nor was a recruitment ban on the region.

Aye, emphasis on (1) "rule-breaking," (2) "illegal scripts," and (3) "collaborating with DOS players." You may choose to interpret the ruling differently, but I believe most observers will conclude that rule-breaking is the fundamental issue here.

Additionally, we can consider this statement:

Every time I say again that invaders aren't bad people - they're decent, rules-abiding players, with no more "bad eggs" than any other community - someone will point to the year and a half of solid cheating we've seen from TBR/DEN. When I argue it's fair for invaders to celebrate their victories the way you'd expect players in a competitive PvP environment to do so - someone is going to point to the "defenders/natives aren't trying hard enough" gloating that took place during that year and a half of Predator-assisted cheating. If I claim that invading adds dynamism to the game - well look at those hundreds of regions spammed through illegal script usage, and the opposite side completely demoralised as they couldn't compete through legal means.

This simply cannot happen again. If it does, I'll wager that Moderation would take a long, hard look at the invading game, and judge it not worth keeping. That's what is at stake here, and that's why I've supported some of the strictest punishments possible. It's what is needed for the invading game to have a chance of recovering any sort of integrity and surviving into the future.

I think it's abundantly clear that cheating and harboring of cheaters is the issue here. Observers will find many more examples in the quoted threads where moderation repeatedly expresses their frustration over how the invading community has repeatedly failed to police itself and has allowed a culture of rulebreaking to persist.

Let there be no doubt: R/D is on thin ice, and I know many Defenders would be more than happy to see it eliminated because some thought it would be worth it to continue associating with the DOS. Stonewalling or claiming the issue is something else entirely is exactly what these Defenders who want to dismantle the game want us to do. The Invaders has a responsibility, just as any other organization and player who raids, simply because it is now incumbent on us to prove that we will not allow widespread, endemic cheating to take hold again. Permitting continued association with a player who actively tries to circumvent their DOS ban does the opposite.

[Funkadelia]

Your and other Invader Network members involvement with Cora is what caused this entire discussion. Perhaps you should look to yourself to blame for this conversation.

No, some dishonest fendahawk leaked the chat. That's how this discussion started. And REALLY? Just me? There was 15 other people in that chat, at least.

So the problem is that you got caught, not that you were talking to them?

[Block II]

And I'll fight every instance of other organizations trying to police an entire sphere for something that isn't a rule violation. I believe everyone spouting fabricated outrage towards the members of The Invaders that still talk to DOS players have crossed the line of ethical decency. In other words, get over it. It's not your business who talks to who.

[Siniarus XVII]

It's not your business who talks to who.

No offense, but when it possibly jeopardizes the existence of R/D gameplay as a whole, it sort of is raiders' and defenders' business. Some of these people would gladly watch R/D burn.

[Block II]

You all that say that this threatens raiding as we know it are pretty comical.

[Ever-Wandering Souls]

It's not your business who talks to who.

When those conversations are actively circulating advertisements to participate in "DOS Gameplay," "Co-operative R/D campaigns with ghosts," "flexible game rules," and "Anti-moderation parties" among other things in "The TBR Ghost Division," aka to participate in something that based on the oft-quoted-in-this-thread moderation posts could get the entire raiding game nuked, that makes it my business, whether I like it or not.

You all that say that this threatens raiding as we know it are pretty comical.

Actually, it's the moderators saying that. Not that you seem to care what they think.

[Shadow Lance the Dank God of Swag]

You all that say that this threatens raiding as we know it are pretty comical.

unless you forgot its coras fault for den dying. also he created a raider organization for DOS'ed players, if anyone, he will end raiding. and i would not be saying that with what you done about others talking to others.
.

he is the reason a region got nuked, 30 others got puppet sweeped, the rules changed, and the mos made it offical not to work with them.

[Shadow Lance the Dank God of Swag]

OK tho lets take this to another thread before moderation decides it does not like this

[Vaculatestar64]

It's not your business who talks to who.

When those conversations are actively circulating advertisements to participate in "DOS Gameplay," "Co-operative R/D campaigns with ghosts," "flexible game rules," and "Anti-moderation parties" among other things in "The TBR Ghost Division," aka to participate in something that based on the oft-quoted-in-this-thread moderation posts could get the entire raiding game nuked, that makes it my business, whether I like it or not.

You all that say that this threatens raiding as we know it are pretty comical.

Actually, it's the moderators saying that. Not that you seem to care what they think.

I can't believe I'm saying this but... I'm on EWS's side here.

[Gradea III]

Congratulations to USSD on their induction! A worthy region!

[Wine-loving Chimps]

Congrats on USSD being inducted.

Shame that it has to come simultaneous to some massive drama about leaking.

Speaking of which, can somebody - unbias- explain to me what's going on? And yes, I live under a rock.

[T E Lawrence]

Speaking of which, can somebody - unbias- explain to me what's going on? And yes, I live under a rock.

I daresay that you cannot find a single unbiased source on this forum, unfortunately. If you'd like a brief explanation instead of reading through the entire thread, I'll gladly telegram you.

-- Lawrence.

[La Navasse]

If invaders know that they're on thin ice and that the very idea of R/D gameplay is in danger anytime they associate with DOS players, then why in the world are some invaders still associating with DOS players if they know that their actions can cause the end of R/D gameplay?

Also, moderators attempting to get rid of R/D gameplay would probably have to require the elimination of the WA Delegacy, as well as Liberations, since regional destruction won't be happening almost at all. However, the elimination of the WA Delegacy would effectively strike down all founderless regions...

In essence, moderators will most likely take action after another script incident, but that action will surely be very time-consuming and extremely controversial. It could also wipe out the R/D community, since long-term infiltration could become only possible way to raid (getting a regional officer position), and possibly kill the majority of the NationStates community. Worst case, it could even spell the end of the entire game.

A lot of invaders are complaint with the rules, but we need everyone. If mods have to get involved sometime soon, they'll have to be very careful with how they change R/D gameplay, if at all, since what's feeding what's essentially trolling others regions or simply destructing them, as well as the organizations against it, also feeds the game itself. We would end up as a roleplay and regional government simulator if things really went far, and you can imagine how popular that would be. For some: bliss. For others: hell.

[Klaus Devestatorie]

If invaders know that they're on thin ice and that the very idea of R/D gameplay is in danger anytime they associate with DOS players, then why in the world are some invaders still associating with DOS players if they know that their actions can cause the end of R/D gameplay?

Because not every raider accepts that as true, or isn't a raging moron, or flat out gives a damn. It's a big long sliding scale from talking to (those) DOS players, to actively working with (those) DOS players, to doing something on the same scale as the last 2 incidents with the help or instruction of (those) DOS players. The raiding community itself is currently expected to police itself to prevent that from happening. Personally, I consider the simplest way to do that is to deeply discourage people from speaking to DOS players, and so do many others, but it's impossible to truly enforce a universal scale, and considering how hilariously bad gameplay has always been at trying to enforce standards on other issues (i.e. forum destruction), I don't really think we'll make it to the end of 2017 without another major conspiracy being caught.

[La Navasse]

If invaders know that they're on thin ice and that the very idea of R/D gameplay is in danger anytime they associate with DOS players, then why in the world are some invaders still associating with DOS players if they know that their actions can cause the end of R/D gameplay?

Because not every raider accepts that as true, or isn't a raging moron, or flat out gives a damn. It's a big long sliding scale from talking to (those) DOS players, to actively working with (those) DOS players, to doing something on the same scale as the last 2 incidents with the help or instruction of (those) DOS players. The raiding community itself is currently expected to police itself to prevent that from happening. Personally, I consider the simplest way to do that is to deeply discourage people from speaking to DOS players, and so do many others, but it's impossible to truly enforce a universal scale, and considering how hilariously bad gameplay has always been at trying to enforce standards on other issues (i.e. forum destruction), I don't really think we'll make it to the end of 2017 without another major conspiracy being caught.

Well, to make people know their boundaries, we should establish a universal scale on interacting with DOS players so others don't fall into the same trap.

[Vaculatestar64]

There is currently an effort among raiding regions to draft a document to be signed by multiple organizations on this very topic as well as the script topic. HYDRA is leading it and I have represented KGB in it and have presented some amendments to the document written by members of our Kings Privy Council of which I am a member that have been added. Overall Raiderdom as a whole is taking this seriously, however there will always be a few bad apples in every group. Every portion of the game has them, yes even the defenders. As for the apparent DOS only raiding group. I won't be tolerating interacting with that group out of any raider. That group needs to be driven from the game in its entirety, even if I have to defend against their operations.

[Ever-Wandering Souls]

There is currently an effort among raiding regions to draft a document to be signed by multiple organizations on this very topic as well as the script topic. HYDRA is leading it and I have represented KGB in it and have presented some amendments to the document written by members of our Kings Privy Council of which I am a member that have been added. Overall Raiderdom as a whole is taking this seriously, however there will always be a few bad apples in every group. Every portion of the game has them, yes even the defenders. As for the apparent DOS only raiding group. I won't be tolerating interacting with that group out of any raider. That group needs to be driven from the game in its entirety, even if I have to defend against their operations.

Better to ignore, report, and let the mods clean it up. Engaging them only encourages them.