Osiris Fraternal Order: Abdication of the Pharaoh

[The Church of Satan]

Ha ha, very funny.

[Bhang Bhang Duc]

If Amerion gets elected then we might see Osiris and Lazarus getting friendly again. Then you'll have to deal with me wandering through your forum again

_{damn it we don't have the 'anti-sheep cannons of oppression' set up yet}

Mint sauce. That'll keep any sheep away.

[Drop Your Pants]

You're welcome on our forum anyway, DYP. We have no problem with Lazarus, it seems to be Lazarus that has the problem with us. Ah well.

Mostly you to be honest I'm slowly infecting Lazarus with the 'Who are you? That's nice' attitude of NS foreign affairs.

[Zaolat]

This really could have been avoided had you just simply communicated with Amerion or Lazarus through other channels before taking to the NS forum with a crusade.

Ha. Nice try BT. Re-read this thread, before taking to the NS forum with a single post crusade.

On another note. Good luck Amerion, and I appreciate you getting a hold of me for official stuff when it came up due to my busy-ness and all that.

[Cormactopia II]

This really could have been avoided had you just simply communicated with Amerion or Lazarus through other channels before taking to the NS forum with a crusade.

Communicating with Amerion is exactly what lead to the impression that he was being strong-armed, but we take him at his word that what he was saying was misinterpreted.

We don't communicate with Lazarus in any official capacity because, as they've made clear, they don't recognize the government of Osiris as legitimate. We're not terribly fond of them either. I think the feeling on both sides is "don't call us, we'll call you," which means no one is calling anyone -- and everyone is fine with that. Osiris and Lazarus have rarely gotten along since the PRL and OFO were established in 2013; the primary exception was when the OFO assisted against the NLO coup of Lazarus, which Lazarus seems to have forgotten, to no one's surprise.

[Yokiria]

As our Pharaoh said, communicating with Amerion was a key part of our misinterpretation that Lazarus was forcing him to choose between positions. We are also not in any way on speaking terms with Lazarus, so communicating with them was not an option.

With that clarified, I'd like to defeat another potential criticism; The fact I made a statement at all. To that I say, what I desire is transparency, because I believe the game desperately needs more of it. I'm also not afraid of being wrong, nor am I of admitting it.

So I saw no fault in my initial statement, and the only fault I see in it now was that information in it was wrong, which I admitted in my subsequent statement.

There's no "crusade" here, as you called it, Thomas. Just someone in a political office that's trying to be reasonable, transparent, and own up to when they're wrong. 'Cause Violet knows that's rare now.

[The Church of Satan]

I wouldn't go that far. Lazarus is appreciative of the assistance provided by the OFO during the coup. To say that the OFO from last year is the same OFO that is here now would be false though. Many do feel that way. Me personally, once the prior government gave up I accepted that the current government is the only government within Osiris. Like it or not that is the reality of it.

At the very least this whole thing could have been avoided if Osiris had simply contacted the Sovereign, Minister Herald or if only to get the ball rolling...myself (on occasion I have been contacted for official correspondence and I relay such correspondence to the Sovereign).

[Yokiria]

At the very least this whole thing could have been avoided if Osiris had simply contacted the Sovereign, Minister Herald or if only to get the ball rolling...myself (on occasion I have been contacted for official correspondence and I relay such correspondence to the Sovereign).

You are absolutely correct. Unfortunately, until the Lazarene government follows as you said 'the reality' and recognizes that we are the only government of Osiris, there can be no official correspondences between Osiris and Lazarus. It is my hope that one day the Lazarene government moves past the past, and allow our regional governments to, at the very least, be able to have basic communication with each other again.

[Drop Your Pants]

You are absolutely correct. Unfortunately, until the Lazarene government follows as you said 'the reality' and recognizes that we are the only government of Osiris, there can be no official correspondences between Osiris and Lazarus. It is my hope that one day the Lazarene government moves past the past, and allow our regional governments to, at the very least, be able to have basic communication with each other again.

So i assume till then we can expect regular stabs from Osiris about...well everything?

[Weed]

You are absolutely correct. Unfortunately, until the Lazarene government follows as you said 'the reality' and recognizes that we are the only government of Osiris, there can be no official correspondences between Osiris and Lazarus. It is my hope that one day the Lazarene government moves past the past, and allow our regional governments to, at the very least, be able to have basic communication with each other again.

So i assume till then we can expect regular stabs from Osiris about...well everything?

This appears to have been a stab about nothing, actually.

[The Church of Satan]

You are absolutely correct. Unfortunately, until the Lazarene government follows as you said 'the reality' and recognizes that we are the only government of Osiris, there can be no official correspondences between Osiris and Lazarus. It is my hope that one day the Lazarene government moves past the past, and allow our regional governments to, at the very least, be able to have basic communication with each other again.

Nothing was stopping Osiris from trying to avoid what could have been an interregional incident. Any effort could have been made instead of jumping to conclusions. So please, at least try to contact the Lazarene government if something like this happens again. It would save both our regions time and of course create some understanding.

[Funkadelia]

I really don't understand the need that Osiris felt to make a ridiculous accusation loudly over their public forum embassy. "We heard this nasty thing and have no idea of its basis in reality but we're going to make a diplomatic communique about it." That's just low quality diplomacy.

[Sandaoguo]

Maybe this would be a prudent time for GCRs to stop being so incestuous. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

[Ever-Wandering Souls]

Maybe this would be a prudent time for GCRs to stop being so incestuous. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

pfft. Like that's unique to GCR's.

[Cormactopia II]

I really don't understand the need that Osiris felt to make a ridiculous accusation loudly over their public forum embassy. "We heard this nasty thing and have no idea of its basis in reality but we're going to make a diplomatic communique about it." That's just low quality diplomacy.

The "ridiculous accusation" wasn't just a rumor we picked up from some random source, it came from Amerion himself, the person running for Delegate of Lazarus and resigning from office in Osiris.

I don't think Lazarus is in any position to complain about "low quality diplomacy." Have you flooded into an allied region's IRC channel to troll them so badly that they terminate the alliance lately? Started recruiting from the Feeders without consulting anyone first? Intervened in an internal conflict in a friendly region, against the very people in that region who were most committed to assisting Lazarus against the NLO coup?

[The Church of Satan]

In all fairness AJW was the pharaoh at that time and as th elected leader of Osiris, he required assistance. Yes I know you disagree with that completely but it remains a fact no matter how you feel about it.

[Funkadelia]

I really don't understand the need that Osiris felt to make a ridiculous accusation loudly over their public forum embassy. "We heard this nasty thing and have no idea of its basis in reality but we're going to make a diplomatic communique about it." That's just low quality diplomacy.

The "ridiculous accusation" wasn't just a rumor we picked up from some random source, it came from Amerion himself, the person running for Delegate of Lazarus and resigning from office in Osiris.

I don't think Lazarus is in any position to complain about "low quality diplomacy." Have you flooded into an allied region's IRC channel to troll them so badly that they terminate the alliance lately? Started recruiting from the Feeders without consulting anyone first? Intervened in an internal conflict in a friendly region, against the very people in that region who were most committed to assisting Lazarus against the NLO coup?

You're really good at drudging up old muck, but there's really not much for you to gain. Good luck.

[Amerion]

I think that's enough about this matter. It benefits neither region to focus on the past rather than look to the future.

[Cormactopia II]

In all fairness AJW was the pharaoh at that time and as th elected leader of Osiris, he required assistance. Yes I know you disagree with that completely but it remains a fact no matter how you feel about it.

This has nothing to do with why Lazarus remains antagonistic toward Osiris and refuses to recognize our government months after the so-called "opposition" -- which consisted primarily of useless RMB spam -- became defunct. Osiris is willing to move past our differences with most regions that supported the Jesus Whale faction in April, but not regions that are still insisting our government is illegitimate.

Aside from that, unlike some regions that felt they had a legal obligation to intervene in April, Lazarus had no such justification. It was Lazarus' choice to intervene in an internal conflict that should not have been any of Lazarus' concern, and it is Lazarus' choice now to remain one of the very few regions that still refuses to recognize the government of Osiris.

I think that's enough about this matter. It benefits neither region to focus on the past rather than look to the future.

There is no future for relations between Osiris and Lazarus while I'm Pharaoh, absent significant change in Lazarus that would lead me to feel reasonably certain that the Lazarene government and citizenry are prepared to respect the sovereignty of Osiris.

[Drop Your Pants]

There is no future for relations between Osiris and Lazarus while I'm Pharaoh, absent significant change in Lazarus that would lead me to feel reasonably certain that the Lazarene government and citizenry are prepared to respect the sovereignty of Osiris.

Oh good, i like a challenge in FA. By the end of the year you'll love us again

[The Church of Satan]

If this latest debacle is any indication of Osiris' diplomatic prowess, I do worry about what bleak future Cormac has in store for the region.

[Zaolat]

I think that's enough about this matter. It benefits neither region to focus on the past rather than look to the future.

I'd like to echo Amerion here. All of y'all should move on.

[Yokiria]

I remember near the end of my second statement that I joked about how this wasn't going to burst into a bunch of drama. Good times.

First of all, I feel the need to point out all the dramatic fluff in here. "interregional incident", "ridiculous accusation", "low quality diplomacy", "stab", "incestuous", "drudging up old muck", "debacle".

Okay, now, down to business:

The reason this happened and I didn't get to use private channels with Lazarus to clear this up, is because my fellow Osirans feel disrespected by the fact Lazarus won't recognize our government and therefore do not want our government officially communicating with the Lazarene government. I listened to the people that elected me. As someone way more experienced in these matters than I am stated, Lazarus isn't showing us "basic diplomatic decency". I couldn't argue against that, and this thread turning into a theater performance on the power of hate, in part due to Lazarenes' posts, does not help me at all if I find myself needing to argue against discouraging talking to Laz peeps at all, or another pointless sinker 'war'.

Also, Cormac's the Pharaoh so you guys make anti-Osiris posts. I know. Just know there are extremely dedicated Osirans that contributed to the region before the OFO even existed and they support this government. Long-time members have said that this new form of government in Osiris is the best that the region has ever had. As the elected head of the government I've been in awe of how efficient and smooth things are. Osiris and efficient used to have restraining orders against each other, I swear. Anyway, point of this paragraph is, try to reel the Cormac hate back in to the point where you don't hate Osiris by proxy. Please. 'Cause Osiris is actually trending upwards right now, and this typical NS bullshit needs to stay the hell away.

[The Church of Satan]

I don't hate Osiris or Cormac. I'm just appaled by the lack of both diplomacy and effort on Osiris' part. I wouldn't let a difference of opinion stop me from trying. Had I been in your place I would have contacted the government of Lazarus to make sure the information checks out. I wouldn't be caught dead releasing an official statement on something I know could very well be untrue. Some friendly advice to the government of Osiris; Give diplomacy a shot and check your information. For your own sake, please. Believe it or not I'd actually like to see Osiris flourish. I'd have gotten involved in the region myself last year if it wasn't a ghost town.

[Cormactopia II]

if I find myself needing to argue against discouraging talking to Laz peeps at all, or another pointless sinker 'war'.

As you know and for the benefit of the broader public, Osiris' regional constitution requires the legislature to declare war, our regional security council to approve it, and the Pharaoh to assent. Even if by some flabbergasting turn of events a declaration of war passed the Council of Scribes and the Council of Priests, which would not happen, I would not assent. Osiris may not have relations with Lazarus while I'm Pharaoh, but neither will we declare war against Lazarus, and with or without relations we remain committed to non-aggression and peaceful coexistence with all of our fellow Feeders and Sinkers.

I hope that is crystal clear to Lazarus, to the broader Feeder and Sinker community, and to anyone who might at any point be thinking about "another pointless sinker 'war'."

I don't see any point in continuing a discussion about what was clearly a miscommunication, on both sides, between Amerion and the Government of Osiris. I would appreciate it if all parties would move on.