NationStates

Ultimate Sacrifice wrote:Just a Feux. Are they unreasonable assumptions, or is the grandstanding of regional sovereignty simply opportunistic and hypocritical?

I think you like to read to deeply into text.

What else do we have? It's a text-based game, broseiden.

To my knowledge Osiris is the only invader leaning GCR. So it doesn't make us neutral or defender to support a democratically elected head of government of a raider region.

EWS, your notions of biased opinions that you think you have found in our Stationmaster's official statement on the coup is unwarranted.; especially since you are biased against Festavo for your own reasons. I have advised (along with the rest of our Council of Elders) to leave your feelings as on Osirian aside when acting in the capacity of our Stationmaster. Everyone in Grand Central is proud to have Festavo as a Stationmaster, and supports his noble cause of supporting democracy.

While some of us may be opinionated against Cormac and Tim (for good reason I may add), as a whole most of Grand Central does not know them well enough to hold such negative opinions against them. We have rallied together as a region to fight the good fight. We look forward to working with Osiris to install their democratically elected delegate in the name of raider unity and democracy.

Ultimate Sacrifice wrote:What else do we have? It's a text-based game, broseiden.

You have better judgement.

Ultimate Sacrifice wrote:You seem surprised. Were you not part of the drafting and discussion?

Edit: I suppose Grand Central has become defender or neutral now? You know, to respect the democratic processes of all regions.

No, I'm glad my signature is on there because I support wiping grime from this game.

Besides the fact that "raiding" and "democratically elected delegate" are generally mutually exclusive terms, I seem to have missed the part of "Unity" that mandates raiding regions enforce elections in an imperialist GCR. I though the idea was that we just don't attack each others' raids and be willing to contribute troops when not otherwise deployed, but maybe I've been misinformed.

Pretty sure that the idea of raiding would support either ignoring the entire debacle or supporting one side for entirely selfish means- supporting it because it is right, fair, and legal is more imperialist, at least.

Grand Central is not just your run of the mill raiding region. We are a region with a regional government, roleplay, discussion, etc that has a raider military.

Ever-Wandering Souls wrote:Besides the fact that "raiding" and "democratically elected delegate" are generally mutually exclusive terms, I seem to have missed the part of "Unity" that mandates raiding regions enforce elections in an imperialist GCR. I though the idea was that we just don't attack each others' raids and be willing to contribute troops when not otherwise deployed, but maybe I've been misinformed.

Pretty sure that the idea of raiding would support either ignoring the entire debacle or supporting one side for entirely selfish means- supporting it because it is right, fair, and legal is more imperialist, at least.

Then you seem to be behind the times my friend, politics have been in raider unity for quite some time.

The Ghost of Festavo wrote:Grand Central is not just your run of the mill raiding region. We are a region with a regional government, roleplay, discussion, etc that has a raider military.

And defending "legitimate and lawful" governments over ones established by military gameplay, all in the name of "justice," apparently.

Sounds more Independant or imperialist to me. Not that those are bad things, just not what I would call "a raiding military."

Even if it were an imperialist stance for us to take, we can still call ourselves raider. Imperialism is a sublet of invading.

Ever-Wandering Souls wrote:

The Ghost of Festavo wrote:Grand Central is not just your run of the mill raiding region. We are a region with a regional government, roleplay, discussion, etc that has a raider military.

And defending "legitimate and lawful" governments over ones established by military gameplay, all in the name of "justice," apparently.

Sounds more Independant or imperialist to me. Not that those are bad things, just not what I would call "a raiding military."

The Osiris Fraternal Order is an ally of Grand Central and we support our allies.

95 block wrote:To my knowledge Osiris is the only invader leaning GCR. So it doesn't make us neutral or defender to support a democratically elected head of government of a raider region.

So, then only raiders deserve democracy? Your statement said that "Nobody has the right to put themsleves above the laws, and above the community of a region."

Does that only apply to Osiris?

Ultimate Sacrifice wrote:

95 block wrote:To my knowledge Osiris is the only invader leaning GCR. So it doesn't make us neutral or defender to support a democratically elected head of government of a raider region.

So, then only raiders deserve democracy? Your statement said that "Nobody has the right to put themsleves above the laws, and above the community of a region."

Does that only apply to Osiris?

Your angle here is?

95 block wrote:Even if it were an imperialist stance for us to take, we can still call ourselves raider. Imperialism is a sublet of invading.

I'll leave that one for Onder when he sees it

Waldeck-Pyrmont wrote:

Ultimate Sacrifice wrote:
So, then only raiders deserve democracy? Your statement said that "Nobody has the right to put themsleves above the laws, and above the community of a region."

Does that only apply to Osiris?

Your angle here is?

His angle is that that statement could equally be applied to any usurpation of legal power.

Ever-Wandering Souls wrote:

Waldeck-Pyrmont wrote:Your angle here is?

His angle is that that statement could equally be applied to any usurpation of legal power.

Of which Grand Central presumably is, or plans to, regularly undertake as raiders.

Ultimate Sacrifice wrote:

Ever-Wandering Souls wrote:
His angle is that that statement could equally be applied to any usurpation of legal power.

Of which Grand Central presumably is, or plans to, regularly undertake as raiders.

There is a difference between an invasion and a coup. An invasion does not pretend to legitimate authority, whereas the sole public justification of Cormac's coup is that Jesus Whale was illegitimately elected and therefore Cormac has the authority, nay, the obligation to take over in the name of good government.

So if they raided Osiris, you'd support the TGO?

That is not what I said at all. All I said is there is a difference between raiding and claiming to be the legitimate authority of a region.

At any rate, this is not debate club. The Government of Grand Central does not engage in deciding hypotheticals.

Ever-Wandering Souls wrote:

The Ghost of Festavo wrote:Grand Central is not just your run of the mill raiding region. We are a region with a regional government, roleplay, discussion, etc that has a raider military.

And defending "legitimate and lawful" governments over ones established by military gameplay, all in the name of "justice," apparently.

Sounds more Independant or imperialist to me. Not that those are bad things, just not what I would call "a raiding military."

Not all imperialists are raiders. I happen to be an imperialist. I also happen to be a defender, and run a defender aligned region. One can be an imperialist without ever raiding region. It just take more time and patience.

Waldeck-Pyrmont wrote:No, I'm glad my signature is on there because I support wiping grime from this game.

Knock it off. Unofficial warning for flaming, only because it is a mild one. Play nice.

Ultimate Sacrifice wrote:So if they raided Osiris, you'd support the TGO?

I think Festavo has already answered your question.

The Ghost of Festavo wrote:The Osiris Fraternal Order is an ally of Grand Central and we support our allies.

The Ghost of Festavo wrote:

Ever-Wandering Souls wrote:
And defending "legitimate and lawful" governments over ones established by military gameplay, all in the name of "justice," apparently.

Sounds more Independant or imperialist to me. Not that those are bad things, just not what I would call "a raiding military."

The Osiris Fraternal Order is an ally of Grand Central and we support our allies.

Since when? Did I somehow miss the alliance negotiations between the OFO and GC? Or are you just claiming to be allies now because it's convenient?

The OFO never had formal relations with Grand Central before the Transitional Government.

Saq wrote:

The Ghost of Festavo wrote:The Osiris Fraternal Order is an ally of Grand Central and we support our allies.

Since when? Did I somehow miss the alliance negotiations between the OFO and GC? Or are you just claiming to be allies now because it's convenient?

The OFO never had formal relations with Grand Central before the Transitional Government.

Trust me, I've already made that argument...

Saq wrote:

The Ghost of Festavo wrote:The Osiris Fraternal Order is an ally of Grand Central and we support our allies.

Since when? Did I somehow miss the alliance negotiations between the OFO and GC? Or are you just claiming to be allies now because it's convenient?

The OFO never had formal relations with Grand Central before the Transitional Government.

Grand Central holds a forum embassy with the Osiris Fraternal Order. There is a formal tie between the OFO and Grand Central, Koth.