Grand Central

[Soames]

Grand Central just needs to die.

Yes. 95 should definitely listen to your opinions. Because you clearly have our best interests at heart.

[Cormactopia II]

Get used to it. Do outrageous things that affect not only your citizens, but also our own, and you can expect a response from Osiris. I expect the same is true for much of the interregional community.

Oh, your poor, poor citizens, Cormac. Let me play an overture, because I'm sure the turmoil in your region is equivalent to ours. And don't jump to any conclusions. This matter is unsettled. We don't know if they're staying or not.

One of our "poor, poor citizens" was, until earlier tonight when she departed your region due to the presence of Nuke, a dual citizen of Osiris and Grand Central. That's what I mean when I say that this doesn't just affect your citizens. This isn't just an internal matter. What your leaders and forum administrators are allowing affects many people who don't exist exclusively in Grand Central, and Osiris will not stand for mistreatment of our citizens by Grand Central. Neither should any other region.

[Soames]

Oh, your poor, poor citizens, Cormac. Let me play an overture, because I'm sure the turmoil in your region is equivalent to ours. And don't jump to any conclusions. This matter is unsettled. We don't know if they're staying or not.

One of our "poor, poor citizens" was until earlier tonight, when she departed your region due to the presence of Nuke, a dual citizen of Osiris and Grand Central. That's what I mean when I say that this doesn't just affect your citizens. This isn't just an internal matter. What you are enabling affects everyone, and Osiris will not stand for it. Neither should anyone else.

Ha! "Dual citizen" is a peculiar concept when Osiris doesn't allow people to hold dual citizenship with our region. All because we decided to take more than 24 hours to solve a complex legal and social issue within our region. Funny how all these foreign leaders are lambasting our region for something that's persisted less than a day as if it's a permanent condition. Our SM hasn't even had time to make his thoughts clear to the public. You're all jumping to conclusions, all trying to influence how we do things over here. I suspect, with the hysteria you're promoting, you're trying to influence things in a negative direction as well.

[Dark Robes]

One of our "poor, poor citizens" was until earlier tonight, when she departed your region due to the presence of Nuke, a dual citizen of Osiris and Grand Central. That's what I mean when I say that this doesn't just affect your citizens. This isn't just an internal matter. What you are enabling affects everyone, and Osiris will not stand for it. Neither should anyone else.

Ha! "Dual citizen" is a peculiar concept when Osiris doesn't allow people to hold dual citizenship with our region. All because we decided to take more than 24 hours to solve a complex legal and social issue within our region. Funny how all these foreign leaders are lambasting our region for something that's persisted less than a day as if it's a permanent condition. Our SM hasn't even had time to make his thoughts clear to the public. You're all jumping to conclusions, all trying to influence how we do things over here. I suspect, with the hysteria you're promoting, you're trying to influence things in a negative direction as well.

That is incorrect Soames.

"As an addendum to these provisions, any resident or citizen of Grand Central who publicly affirms that they are committed to the expulsion of Nuke and Feuer Ritter from Grand Central, and to systematic change to ensure that nothing of this nature will occur in Grand Central in the future, and that they will work to pursue that goal as residents or citizens of Grand Central, may be admitted to citizenship or may be eligible for the aforementioned appointments, on a case by case basis.

It is not our intent to punish well-meaning citizens of Grand Central who are being forced to continue interacting with the likes of Nuke and Feuer Ritter in order to continue participating in a region to which they have already made substantial contributions. "

Please educate yourself before you open your mouth.

[Soames]

Ha! "Dual citizen" is a peculiar concept when Osiris doesn't allow people to hold dual citizenship with our region. All because we decided to take more than 24 hours to solve a complex legal and social issue within our region. Funny how all these foreign leaders are lambasting our region for something that's persisted less than a day as if it's a permanent condition. Our SM hasn't even had time to make his thoughts clear to the public. You're all jumping to conclusions, all trying to influence how we do things over here. I suspect, with the hysteria you're promoting, you're trying to influence things in a negative direction as well.

That is incorrect Soames.

"As an addendum to these provisions, any resident or citizen of Grand Central who publicly affirms that they are committed to the expulsion of Nuke and Feuer Ritter from Grand Central, and to systematic change to ensure that nothing of this nature will occur in Grand Central in the future, and that they will work to pursue that goal as residents or citizens of Grand Central, may be admitted to citizenship or may be eligible for the aforementioned appointments, on a case by case basis.

It is not our intent to punish well-meaning citizens of Grand Central who are being forced to continue interacting with the likes of Nuke and Feuer Ritter in order to continue participating in a region to which they have already made substantial contributions. "

Please educate yourself before you open your mouth.

Foreign leaders orchestrating a blatant attempt at controlling our internal affairs. We have a legal process here. We debate issues with each other before we make conclusions. Our region is like this. Cormac has promulgated this hasty resolution before this process could finish.

[Cormactopia II]

Ha! "Dual citizen" is a peculiar concept when Osiris doesn't allow people to hold dual citizenship with our region.

False. Osiris has taken no action against existing dual citizens of Osiris and Grand Central, and the individual I mentioned, whom you know as Tye and who is called Kemi on our forum, was a dual citizen until earlier tonight when she resigned citizenship in Grand Central of her own accord.

Future citizenship applications by residents of Grand Central may be rejected, though we are granting exemption and a safe haven to anyone who is opposing the outrageous decisions your leaders have made, on a case by case basis.

All because we decided to take more than 24 hours to solve a complex legal and social issue within our region. Funny how all these foreign leaders are lambasting our region for something that's persisted less than a day as if it's a permanent condition.

It has been longer than 24 hours, and your regional leaders and forum administrators were well aware of concerns regarding Nuke and Feuer Ritter before ever admitting them to citizenship in Grand Central. They disregarded those concerns.

Our SM hasn't even had time to make his thoughts clear to the public.

Your Stationmaster has made his thoughts very clear to many people via Skype. I suspect what you mean is your Stationmaster hasn't had time to issue a statement to rationalize these extremely heinous decisions. Whatever rationalization he comes up with will not impact our position on this matter in the least.

You're all jumping to conclusions, all trying to influence how we do things over here. I suspect, with the hysteria you're promoting, you're trying to influence things in a negative direction as well.

How much more negative could things get in Grand Central? Your leaders are destroying your regional community without any help from anyone else. Perhaps you should be more concerned with what they're doing.

[RiderSyl]

Grand Central just needs to die.

Yes. 95 should definitely listen to your opinions. Because you clearly have our best interests at heart.

Since when did I imply I care about 95? To be clear, I don't. And I don't have the best interests of your region itself at heart. Again, Grand Central needs to die.

I want to see all the players suffering through stress and drama because of 95's bullshit leave the region and find a better place to hang out. Clearly you, "Soames", want to stick around, so you can just have fun with Feuer and Block.

[Ozzy]

Since when did I imply I care about 95? To be clear, I don't. And I don't have the best interests of your region itself at heart. Again, Grand Central needs to die.

I want to see all the players suffering through stress and drama because of 95's bullshit leave the region and find a better place to hang out. Clearly you, "Soames", want to stick around, so you can just have fun with Feuer and Block.

What bullshit is this 95 fellow doing that's imposing stress and drama upon the members of their own region?

[RiderSyl]

Since when did I imply I care about 95? To be clear, I don't. And I don't have the best interests of your region itself at heart. Again, Grand Central needs to die.

I want to see all the players suffering through stress and drama because of 95's bullshit leave the region and find a better place to hang out. Clearly you, "Soames", want to stick around, so you can just have fun with Feuer and Block.

What bullshit is this 95 fellow doing that's imposing stress and drama upon the members of their own region?

Can't say on NS Forums. Wish I could. Don't want to receive modly wrath, though.

[The Dourian Embassy]

Can't say on NS Forums. Wish I could. Don't want to receive modly wrath, though.

Are you sure? I know at least one person who claimed this sort of thing has happened to them on the site as well. I'd imagine if that's the case it's perfectly reasonable to outline what was done to them here. Even if you can't personally explain the behaviors that were directed at you.

[RiderSyl]

Can't say on NS Forums. Wish I could. Don't want to receive modly wrath, though.

Are you sure? I know at least one person who claimed this sort of thing has happened to them on the site as well. I'd imagine if that's the case it's perfectly reasonable to outline what was done to them here. Even if you can't personally explain the behaviors that were directed at you.

I'm not going to get in a clusterfuck with the mods over this. If she wants to come forward and personally explain what's happened, then that's fine.

[Ever-Wandering Souls]

Can't say on NS Forums. Wish I could. Don't want to receive modly wrath, though.

Are you sure? I know at least one person who claimed this sort of thing has happened to them on the site as well. I'd imagine if that's the case it's perfectly reasonable to outline what was done to them here. Even if you can't personally explain the behaviors that were directed at you.

May well have been before the defamation ruling.

[The Dourian Embassy]

May well have been before the defamation ruling.

I was being specific though, in that the case in question involved some of the same people (and would be after that ruling I believe). However if there's some overarching rule against people on the site talking about harassment that took place on the site, that's really weird. But also not something I'm willing to argue because it's a moot point. I just asked her and she doesn't want to bring it up, cause she's afraid she'll get harassed again, and this time off-site where definitely nothing can be done about it.

Though I will say that knowing what I know, the whole business has soured me on the principals involved in this. I can only hope Grand Central acts quickly and forcefully to deal with the issues relating to their members. If not the rest of the community really does need to take a stand.

Edit: Actually come to think of it we may just be talking about different people with different situations being treated the same way by the same people across different platforms. Which is a lot more troubling than I first thought.

[Soames]

Since when did I imply I care about 95? To be clear, I don't. And I don't have the best interests of your region itself at heart. Again, Grand Central needs to die.

We have no use in entertaining your pronounced attempts at bringing down an excellent region, driven by personal animosity. Why should we spend our time debating those who wish to see our destruction? What positivity could you possibly bring to the situation? None whatsoever. By motive, you're disgruntled, and only here to spread chaos.

[RiderSyl]

Since when did I imply I care about 95? To be clear, I don't. And I don't have the best interests of your region itself at heart. Again, Grand Central needs to die.

We have no use in entertaining your pronounced attempts at bringing down an excellent region

"excellent region"

Yeah, you're one step away from "welcoming" DoS members into your group. If that's your idea of excellence, then I have a terrible idea. Grand Central dead.

Why should we spend our time debating those who wish to see our destruction?

It's your time, spend it how you like.

What positivity could you possibly bring to the situation? None whatsoever.

That's because this situation is like watching someone being stoned to death. What the hell do you mean "bring positivity to the situation"? The situation is fucking awful and it's getting worse the more time passes.

By motive, you're disgruntled, and only here to spread chaos.

The chaos has been spread without me lifting a finger.

[Five Finger Delta]

Oh, your poor, poor citizens, Cormac. Let me play an overture, because I'm sure the turmoil in your region is equivalent to ours. And don't jump to any conclusions. This matter is unsettled. We don't know if they're staying or not.

One of our "poor, poor citizens" was, until earlier tonight when she departed your region due to the presence of Nuke, a dual citizen of Osiris and Grand Central. That's what I mean when I say that this doesn't just affect your citizens. This isn't just an internal matter. What your leaders and forum administrators are allowing affects many people who don't exist exclusively in Grand Central, and Osiris will not stand for mistreatment of our citizens by Grand Central. Neither should any other region.

I was never aware she was there. I've made it clear how I feel about the matter. I was removed from DEN, and left NS because of my horrific actions. I've done terrible shit on NS. I'm not proud of it. The sexual harassment? Betraying a friend and deliberately hurting her is not something I just take in stride. I fucked up, I'm a predator, a monster, I'm everything you claim I am. I hurt an innocent girl, a friend out of my own selfish desires. I don't want to be forgiven or given a pity party. I just want to move on and try to prevent this sort of shit from happening again. Yet no matter who long I stay off or where I go I'm driven away? How do I change and become a better person if I'm treated with scorn?

[Mousebumples]

Can't say on NS Forums. Wish I could. Don't want to receive modly wrath, though.

Are you sure? I know at least one person who claimed this sort of thing has happened to them on the site as well. I'd imagine if that's the case it's perfectly reasonable to outline what was done to them here. Even if you can't personally explain the behaviors that were directed at you.

MOD NOTE: If any player (no matter your gender identity) feels that they are having inappropriate messages sent to them (or posted on their regional RMB, in a forum thread, etc.), please please file a GHR.

As many know, what happens on offsites is outside our jurisdiction; however, if there are issues that occur on our site, we would like to take action where possible. And, of course, here is the OSRS for review purposes.
-Mousebumples, Game Moderator

[The Dourian Embassy]

I was never aware she was there. I've made it clear how I feel about the matter. I was removed from DEN, and left NS because of my horrific actions. I've done terrible shit on NS. I'm not proud of it. The sexual harassment? Betraying a friend and deliberately hurting her is not something I just take in stride. I fucked up, I'm a predator, a monster, I'm everything you claim I am. I hurt an innocent girl, a friend out of my own selfish desires. I don't want to be forgiven or given a pity party. I just want to move on and try to prevent this sort of shit from happening again. Yet no matter who long I stay off or where I go I'm driven away? How do I change and become a better person if I'm treated with scorn?

If I can ask a question here... If you are aware that what you did was wrong, and want to move on, why put your victim at risk of encountering you again? She's just trying to play a game and not have to deal with shit, and you're fully aware of what you represent to her. This game is not your entire life. It's not hers either, but you're the offender here, not her. All you have to do is not put yourself at risk of interacting with someone you previously hurt. That's easy to do: you don't come back.

You say that you've changed. You say you're looking for another chance to be less selfish. But you still went there, and she's still gone. If you were really trying, this would not have been a problem in the first place. Contrition does not mean moving on without consequences. The consequences of some actions will continue to follow you regardless of how sorry you are for them happening. Literally anyone can be sorry. It takes real courage to actually accept the consequences of your actions and move on. Sometimes that means not fighting for a second chance.

This community'll forget a lot. But I'm not about to say to an admitted predator and monster "It's ok, come on back and prove you're not a bad person and we'll ignore that thing you did." because that tells all the other predators and monsters out there that there are no real consequences for such acts. There should be consequences and they should not have a time limit. We have a moral obligation as people, not players, to hold you and everyone else to such a standard. And you should accept that and move on. And I mean really move on. Not look for a region that's willing to take you in so you can rehabilitate yourself. It's not life and death. The stakes here are incredibly low. Not getting to play Nationstates would be an incredibly small cross for you to bear for your actions.

Yet I do feel for you. To know that a community you enjoy is just out of reach is hard. Realize it should be hard. That's what accountability feels like.

[Neo Kervoskia]

How do I change and become a better person if I'm treated with scorn?

By not coming back.

[Five Finger Delta]

I was never aware she was there. I've made it clear how I feel about the matter. I was removed from DEN, and left NS because of my horrific actions. I've done terrible shit on NS. I'm not proud of it. The sexual harassment? Betraying a friend and deliberately hurting her is not something I just take in stride. I fucked up, I'm a predator, a monster, I'm everything you claim I am. I hurt an innocent girl, a friend out of my own selfish desires. I don't want to be forgiven or given a pity party. I just want to move on and try to prevent this sort of shit from happening again. Yet no matter who long I stay off or where I go I'm driven away? How do I change and become a better person if I'm treated with scorn?

If I can ask a question here... If you are aware that what you did was wrong, and want to move on, why put your victim at risk of encountering you again? She's just trying to play a game and not have to deal with shit, and you're fully aware of what you represent to her. This game is not your entire life. It's not hers either, but you're the offender here, not her. All you have to do is not put yourself at risk of interacting with someone you previously hurt. That's easy to do: you don't come back.

You say that you've changed. You say you're looking for another chance to be less selfish. But you still went there, and she's still gone. If you were really trying, this would not have been a problem in the first place. Contrition does not mean moving on without consequences. The consequences of some actions will continue to follow you regardless of how sorry you are for them happening. Literally anyone can be sorry. It takes real courage to actually accept the consequences of your actions and move on. Sometimes that means not fighting for a second chance.

This community'll forget a lot. But I'm not about to say to an admitted predator and monster "It's ok, come on back and prove you're not a bad person and we'll ignore that thing you did." because that tells all the other predators and monsters out there that there are no real consequences for such acts. There should be consequences and they should not have a time limit. We have a moral obligation as people, not players, to hold you and everyone else to such a standard. And you should accept that and move on. And I mean really move on. Not look for a region that's willing to take you in so you can rehabilitate yourself. It's not life and death. The stakes here are incredibly low. Not getting to play Nationstates would be an incredibly small cross for you to bear for your actions.

Yet I do feel for you. To know that a community you enjoy is just out of reach is hard. Realize it should be hard. That's what accountability feels like.

I've tried. Where do I go? I went to the one place I knew people and then it turns out she's there too. I didn't have plans to interact with her. I felt it best not to talk to her again. Why don't I leave? I still have friends here and still am addicted to this game. What I don't want and what I'm trying to explain is I don't want people not involved in my disgusting acts to be blamed for something they were not involved with. GC didn't just allow me in. In fact, they weren't going to originally. They took a vote after I explained myself and what my goal was. Most simply do not trust me and that's fine. If you want to blame someone: blame me. GC isn't at fault for allowing me in. I'm the one who harassed numerous people on NS, I'm the one who sexually harassed someone. Most of this shit is because, I'm a goddamned bully. I did it to feel powerful, to feel good about myself. After I "retired", I did a lot of thinking. I realized being a bully, being the bad guy wasn't fun. I was tired of hurting people, I was tired of being an asshole to everyone. I feel I could at least do something decent to change myself instead of just doing the usual song and dance I typically did in the past.

[Ever-Wandering Souls]

GC, or specific players within, is/are entirely at fault for exposing victims to their nightmares in not one but two cases, after promising them they'd be safe there, and without even giving them fair warning of the impending new members. That's blatant and potentially disastrous negligence at best, and outright betraying their own members and putting them in danger at worst.

[Biyah]

I was never aware she was there.

I've tried. Where do I go? I went to the one place I knew people and then it turns out she's there too. I didn't have plans to interact with her. I felt it best not to talk to her again.

Holding contradictions is a very zen attitude, except when you're talking about the abuses you've self-admittedly committed.

[Neo Kervoskia]

If I can ask a question here... If you are aware that what you did was wrong, and want to move on, why put your victim at risk of encountering you again? She's just trying to play a game and not have to deal with shit, and you're fully aware of what you represent to her. This game is not your entire life. It's not hers either, but you're the offender here, not her. All you have to do is not put yourself at risk of interacting with someone you previously hurt. That's easy to do: you don't come back.

You say that you've changed. You say you're looking for another chance to be less selfish. But you still went there, and she's still gone. If you were really trying, this would not have been a problem in the first place. Contrition does not mean moving on without consequences. The consequences of some actions will continue to follow you regardless of how sorry you are for them happening. Literally anyone can be sorry. It takes real courage to actually accept the consequences of your actions and move on. Sometimes that means not fighting for a second chance.

This community'll forget a lot. But I'm not about to say to an admitted predator and monster "It's ok, come on back and prove you're not a bad person and we'll ignore that thing you did." because that tells all the other predators and monsters out there that there are no real consequences for such acts. There should be consequences and they should not have a time limit. We have a moral obligation as people, not players, to hold you and everyone else to such a standard. And you should accept that and move on. And I mean really move on. Not look for a region that's willing to take you in so you can rehabilitate yourself. It's not life and death. The stakes here are incredibly low. Not getting to play Nationstates would be an incredibly small cross for you to bear for your actions.

Yet I do feel for you. To know that a community you enjoy is just out of reach is hard. Realize it should be hard. That's what accountability feels like.

I've tried. Where do I go? I went to the one place I knew people and then it turns out she's there too. I didn't have plans to interact with her. I felt it best not to talk to her again. Why don't I leave? I still have friends here and still am addicted to this game. What I don't want and what I'm trying to explain is I don't want people not involved in my disgusting acts to be blamed for something they were not involved with. GC didn't just allow me in. In fact, they weren't going to originally. They took a vote after I explained myself and what my goal was. Most simply do not trust me and that's fine. If you want to blame someone: blame me. GC isn't at fault for allowing me in. I'm the one who harassed numerous people on NS, I'm the one who sexually harassed someone. Most of this shit is because, I'm a goddamned bully. I did it to feel powerful, to feel good about myself. After I "retired", I did a lot of thinking. I realized being a bully, being the bad guy wasn't fun. I was tired of hurting people, I was tired of being an asshole to everyone. I feel I could at least do something decent to change myself instead of just doing the usual song and dance I typically did in the past.

I shall be generous and give you the benefit of the doubt that you were ignorant that she was in Grand Central. Given that, if you, as you've stated above, are truly repentant and tired of hurting her, then the moment you found out she was there you should have left. You at least owe your her that. It is completely irrelevant how much you've changed. It is not for you to determine if the pain's still there.

[Klaus Devestatorie]

I have proposed a constitutional amendment passed that will a; give the citizens of Grand Central an avenue to object and cancel any similar incident happening again (remove a newly accepted citizen applicant that nobody wanted) and b; ensure that this constitutional amendment can be retroactively applied to the applications of Feuer and Nuke.

In the meantime, I now know why 94 Block allowed these two into Grand Central; the overarching reason was exactly what I expected, but part of the associated rationale behind it was beyond appalling. I will not be participating there again.

[Ever-Wandering Souls]

I have proposed a constitutional amendment passed that will a; give the citizens of Grand Central an avenue to object and cancel any similar incident happening again (remove a newly accepted citizen applicant that nobody wanted) and b; ensure that this constitutional amendment can be retroactively applied to the applications of Feuer and Nuke.

In the meantime, I now know why 94 Block allowed these two into Grand Central; the overarching reason was exactly what I expected, but part of the associated rationale behind it was beyond appalling. I will not be participating there again.

Care to share?