NationStates

Great Brigantia wrote:

North East Somerset wrote:I love it when you talk provocatively like that. *bites lip*

Or Balder can go on making a joke of itself and the entire situation, on proud display in front of its increasingly uncomfortable treaty allies, that works too.

Hail the New Balder Order Grand Nordic Order of Balder, its ridiculous looking rip-off flag, and its complete absence of law or a democratic institution to legislate! o/ o/ o/

So melodramatic.

Albion isn't uncomfortable at least. We <3 the Baldar.

Balder is also in very little danger of being couped. And has the backing of regions who actually have militaries sizeable enough to fight wars, instead of just throwing fancy but empty words all over the place.

The Stalker wrote:Depends how you define winning. NPO may be tightening their grip over Lazarus, but they are really paying for it on the diplomatic end of things. Lost relations with all the GCR, except Balder who doesn't wanna take a side.

They keep saying they are neutral but the truth is that Balder supports NLO and NPO. Did I say Balder, I meant the NBO.

Consular wrote:

Great Brigantia wrote:Or Balder can go on making a joke of itself and the entire situation, on proud display in front of its increasingly uncomfortable treaty allies, that works too.

Hail the New Balder Order Grand Nordic Order of Balder, its ridiculous looking rip-off flag, and its complete absence of law or a democratic institution to legislate! o/ o/ o/

So melodramatic.

Albion isn't uncomfortable at least. We <3 the Baldar.

Balder is also in very little danger of being couped. And has the backing of regions who actually have militaries sizeable enough to fight wars, instead of just throwing fancy but empty words all over the place.

Course not, Feux doesn't need to, Solorni joined them willingly.

Consular wrote:Balder is also in very little danger of being couped. And has the backing of regions who actually have militaries sizeable enough to fight wars, instead of just throwing fancy but empty words all over the place.

I'm curious to which regions you're referring.

Trying to use fear to force Balder to take a side is actually quite... Pathetic. They have a right as a region to not be forced to a side.

Drakezia wrote:Trying to use fear to force Balder to take a side is actually quite... Pathetic. They have a right as a region to not be forced to a side.

I'm not trying to force Balder to do anything. That would be pretty ridiculous. I'm trying to make Balder see why it may be in their interests to support the Lazarene Underground State, and to stick with the Feeders and Sinkers who actually care about Feeder and Sinker sovereignty.

If Balder opts not to do that, that's Balder's choice and while I don't respect it, I'm not interested in trying to force a Sinker to do anything.

Great Brigantia wrote:

Drakezia wrote:Trying to use fear to force Balder to take a side is actually quite... Pathetic. They have a right as a region to not be forced to a side.

I'm not trying to force Balder to do anything. That would be pretty ridiculous. I'm trying to make Balder see why it may be in their interests to support the Lazarene Underground State, and to stick with the Feeders and Sinkers who actually care about Feeder and Sinker sovereignty.

If Balder opts not to do that, that's Balder's choice and while I don't respect it, I'm not interested in trying to force a Sinker to do anything.

Why would it be in Balder's interests to prop up a failed FRA member state when two of their closest allies are currently in a state of war with the FRA?

Klaus Devestatorie wrote:Why would it be in Balder's interests to prop up a failed FRA member state when two of their closest allies are currently in a state of war with the FRA?

Balder's Feeder and Sinker allies are all supporting the Lazarene Underground State. Its other allies, with the exception of The Communist Bloc, are neutral. Obviously, it is in Balder's interests, as a Sinker, to support the sovereignty of another Sinker, along with its fellow Feeders and Sinkers. Otherwise, what incentive do they have to maintain their alliances with Balder, whose Delegate has just dissolved the regional legislature and laws, and to care about Balder's sovereignty in the future?

If Balder wants to follow the course of its user-created allies who are all protected by founders, that is Balder's business, but it may later regret turning its back on its fellow Feeders and Sinkers.

Great Brigantia wrote:

Klaus Devestatorie wrote:Why would it be in Balder's interests to prop up a failed FRA member state when two of their closest allies are currently in a state of war with the FRA?

Balder's Feeder and Sinker allies are all supporting the Lazarene Underground State. Its other allies, with the exception of The Communist Bloc, are neutral. Obviously, it is in Balder's interests, as a Sinker, to support the sovereignty of another Sinker, along with its fellow Feeders and Sinkers. Otherwise, what incentive do they have to maintain their alliances with Balder, whose Delegate has just dissolved the regional legislature and laws, and to care about Balder's sovereignty in the future?

If Balder wants to follow the course of its user-created allies who are all protected by founders, that is Balder's business, but it may later regret turning its back on its fellow Feeders and Sinkers.

Then with allies on both ends, is it really that unreasonable for Balder to stay neutral?

Not unreasonable for Balder to want to remain neutral, though it will be difficult being the only GCR doing so.

Ultimately in these kind of situations neither side is going to be fully happy with you if you don't pick a side, or you'll be perceived as having already picked one.

Hey guys, what's going on? Did something happen in Lazarus?

The Stalker wrote:Ultimately in these kind of situations neither side is going to be fully happy with you if you don't pick a side, or you'll be perceived as having already picked one.

Very true. Well said.

Drakezia wrote:Trying to use fear to force Balder to take a side is actually quite... Pathetic. They have a right as a region to not be forced to a side.

I don't think you understand. Balder has chosen a side. They choose to become an ally of the NPO

Toronina wrote:

Drakezia wrote:Trying to use fear to force Balder to take a side is actually quite... Pathetic. They have a right as a region to not be forced to a side.

I don't think you understand. Balder has chosen a side. They choose to become an ally of the NPO

Don't you think it's a little bit extreme to outright say: Who's not with us, must be our enemy?
This is what you are currently doing.
I appreciate this.

Pergamon wrote:

Toronina wrote:I don't think you understand. Balder has chosen a side. They choose to become an ally of the NPO

Don't you think it's a little bit extreme to outright say: Who's not with us, must be our enemy?
This is what you are currently doing.
I appreciate this.

Like you're one to talk, being a member of the "OMG USERSITE!" New Pacific Order.

Pergamon wrote:

Toronina wrote:I don't think you understand. Balder has chosen a side. They choose to become an ally of the NPO

Don't you think it's a little bit extreme to outright say: Who's not with us, must be our enemy?
This is what you are currently doing.
I appreciate this.

I'm not saying that, I'm saying Balder choose their side. Besides, like Ridersyl said, anyone that is against you somehow must be a userite, even if you guys made the words up

Great Brigantia wrote:

Consular wrote:Balder is also in very little danger of being couped. And has the backing of regions who actually have militaries sizeable enough to fight wars, instead of just throwing fancy but empty words all over the place.

I'm curious to which regions you're referring.

And I'm curious as to why you care so much about the PRL. This coup is the same false government, just a new name and now finally with the recognition that the NPO has been in control all along. The actual coup happened long ago, to much less resistance.

Toronina wrote:

Pergamon wrote:
Don't you think it's a little bit extreme to outright say: Who's not with us, must be our enemy?
This is what you are currently doing.
I appreciate this.

I'm not saying that, I'm saying Balder choose their side. Besides, like Ridersyl said, anyone that is against you somehow must be a userite, even if you guys made the words up

Actually, the NLO sees Balder as neutral. You're the one forcing people into categories, and frankly you appear to be in a minority even among other PRL supporters.

Consular wrote:

Great Brigantia wrote:I'm curious to which regions you're referring.

And I'm curious as to why you care so much about the PRL. This coup is the same false government, just a new name and now finally with the recognition that the NPO has been in control all along. The actual coup happened long ago, to much less resistance.

Because anybody paying attention could realize that the current group that is the "PRL in Exile" is clearly not the NPO, and is actually fighting to regain sovereignty of their home and make something out of it. The reason people care about seeing those exiled PRL return is because they're the only people that are willing to work to make Lazarus something more than yet another stagnant trophy on the NPO's shelf. It's a shame that you can't grasp this, after so many pages.

Tim Stark wrote:

Consular wrote:And I'm curious as to why you care so much about the PRL. This coup is the same false government, just a new name and now finally with the recognition that the NPO has been in control all along. The actual coup happened long ago, to much less resistance.

Because anybody paying attention could realize that the current group that is the "PRL in Exile" is clearly not the NPO, and is actually fighting to regain sovereignty of their home and make something out of it. The reason people care about seeing those exiled PRL return is because they're the only people that are willing to work to make Lazarus something more than yet another stagnant trophy on the NPO's shelf. It's a shame that you can't grasp this, after so many pages.

Unfortunately, the PRL has no sovereignty. It never did anyways.

Consular wrote:And I'm curious as to why you care so much about the PRL. This coup is the same false government, just a new name and now finally with the recognition that the NPO has been in control all along. The actual coup happened long ago, to much less resistance.

Well, personally, I've made friends with several Lazarenes. When I make actual friends in NationStates, not to be confused with casual acquaintances or in-character political allies, I tend to stick by them.

More politically relevant, the Lazarene Underground State is comprised of the Lazarene natives who have been contributing to the region for two years -- and some, like Harmoneia, far longer. It is also the party to this conflict that is proposing a liberal democratic government in Lazarus, the same kind of government that has brought both activity and stability to regions like The East Pacific, The North Pacific, The South Pacific, Osiris, The Rejected Realms, and previously, Balder, as well as to many user-created regions like Europeia and Taijitu. To me, it seems like an easy no-brainer to back the Lazarene Underground State over the autocratic regime supported by foreign raider pilers. While I do think there are valid criticisms of the People's Republic's past, what is important now is the future of Lazarus and it quite clearly has a brighter future with the Lazarene Underground State.

Klaus Devestatorie wrote:

Toronina wrote:I'm not saying that, I'm saying Balder choose their side. Besides, like Ridersyl said, anyone that is against you somehow must be a userite, even if you guys made the words up

Actually, the NLO sees Balder as neutral. You're the one forcing people into categories, and frankly you appear to be in a minority even among other PRL supporters.

Try and deny it all you wish, the fact remains, Balder is not neutral. They joined the NPO. They suddenly have an embassy in Lazarus, when they had none before, and quite a few were withdrawing, made an embassy with The Pacific all of a sudden IIRC, delegate and regional flags are similar to that of the NPO and NLO. If they were neutral, why the sudden embassies. I don't think they had embassies with Communist Bloc before either. I am merely connecting the dots. If that all does not scream suspicious, then I don't know what does. If Balder was neutral, they would have no need to make a embassy with Lazarus all of a sudden when Stujenske couped the region.

Toronina wrote:I don't think they had embassies with Communist Bloc before either.

I swear I have to do all the research for you -_-

http://w11.zetaboards.com/Balder/forum/4175290/
Embassy since October.

viewtopic.php?f=12&t=315059&start=100#p23320287
Alliance since January.

Zenya wrote:

Toronina wrote:I don't think they had embassies with Communist Bloc before either.

I swear I have to do all the research for you -_-

http://w11.zetaboards.com/Balder/forum/4175290/
Embassy since October.

viewtopic.php?f=12&t=315059&start=100#p23320287
Alliance since January.

For the first one, it is not availbe to those who do not have a account on the forums.
For the second one, I did not say exactly that TCB was not allied with Balder, I said I think, I didn't say I knew it.

Toronina wrote:For the first one, it is not availbe to those who do not have a account on the forums.
For the second one, I did not say exactly that TCB was not allied with Balder, I said I think, I didn't say I knew it.

All I'm doing is trying to show you that the dots you're connecting don't add up, at least in regards to TCB.
Not everything is a conspiracy. I've been completely up front about our intentions, how we got involved, why we got involved, and all reasonable explanations have been tossed aside for conspiracy theories ranging from me personally overseeing the coup to me being bribed by Feux to me bribing game mods to suppress opposition. Its ridiculous and I've been stuck explaining this over and over again.