The Imperium of Ceirien: Going right!

by **Ivo Mullur** » Sat Feb 28, 2015 4:12 pm

Kogvuron wrote:So do you guys work with Nazis now?

https://www.nationstates.net/region=nat ... _republics

(Image)

So much for raider unity... :eyebrow:

Guess they're bored enough to not even notice who's on the opposing side of the field. I thought they even have an alliance with The Imperialist Coalition, or am I mistaken?

by **Marelius** » Sat Feb 28, 2015 5:23 pm

Yes, i intend to work with the right wing, aka fascists and nazis. We still remain part of raider unity and don't intend on abondining our friends. I also don't see by which logic does our alliance with TIC stop us from raiding with GGR and NE. More on this on the next regional update.

by **Kogvuron** » Sat Feb 28, 2015 6:52 pm

Marelius wrote:Yes, i intend to work with the right wing, aka fascists and nazis. We still remain part of raider unity and don't intend on abondining our friends. I also don't see by which logic does our alliance with TIC stop us from raiding with GGR and NE. More on this on the next regional update.

I hope that other raiders don't intend to work with Nazi supporters

by **Valrifell** » Sat Feb 28, 2015 7:05 pm

Kogvuron wrote:
Marelius wrote:Yes, i intend to work with the right wing, aka fascists and nazis. We still remain part of raider unity and don't intend on abondining our friends. I also don't see by which logic does our alliance with TIC stop us from raiding with GGR and NE. More on this on the next regional update.

I hope that other raiders don't intend to work with Nazi supporters

This will eventually prove disasterous for the Imperium and the players who had any hand in pushing this choice, as NS history has shown, regions who work with or sympathize with the GP Right are put into social exile. If the Imperium is bent on making this choice, I can assure everyone that they will lose the oppritunity to work with a solid 98% of GP.

Which is sad, I hope these alliances won't be anything perpetually binding to the imperium and only a few one-off raids. Even then, they're going to lose a solid chunk of supporters.

Hence why everyone would heavily advise against such a move. Of course, I don't know the details of the situation an will admit I cannot make a judgement call yet without making assumptions.

by **Ambrella** » Sat Feb 28, 2015 11:01 pm

Marelius wrote:Yes, i intend to work with the right wing, aka fascists and nazis. We still remain part of raider unity and don't intend on abondining our friends. I also don't see by which logic does our alliance with TIC stop us from raiding with GGR and NE. More on this on the next regional update.

You're going to find yourself blackballed by the international community. You're certainly blackballed by Europeia.

by **Tim Stark** » Sat Feb 28, 2015 11:07 pm

Marelius wrote:Yes, i intend to work with the right wing, aka fascists and nazis. We still remain part of raider unity and don't intend on abondining our friends. I also don't see by which logic does our alliance with TIC stop us from raiding with GGR and NE. More on this on the next regional update.

I can certainly confirm Osiris will not be working with Ceirien while it is supporting Right Wing operations, and hopefully we won't be the only ones.

by **Gradea** » Sat Feb 28, 2015 11:15 pm

Werewolves of the Flame condemns Cerien for it's fascist ties.

by **Corvus Corax** » Sun Mar 01, 2015 4:16 am

Gradea wrote:Werewolves of the Flame condemns Cerien for it's fascist ties.

Then it should be condemned also for it's anti-fascist ties.

by **Marelius** » Sun Mar 01, 2015 4:21 am

Though such reactions were expected, and even wanted, i would appreciate it if the GP community would hold it's oh so sophisticated mouth until i actually make a proper statement on the matter. As i said, i will give out the details on this on the next update article, which should be arriving on the thread today.

Gradea wrote:Werewolves of the Flame condemns Cerien for it's fascist ties.

If you could work that into a actual WA condemnation, i would be very grateful.

by **KaelThas Quilor** » Sun Mar 01, 2015 6:45 am

Corvus Corax wrote:
Gradea wrote:Werewolves of the Flame condemns Cerien for it's fascist ties.

Then it should be condemned also for it's anti-fascist ties.

Why? Anti-fascist regions, while sanctimonious and annoying, don't elicit the same kind of...reaction that Nazi and Fascist regions do.

by **Xoriet** » Sun Mar 01, 2015 10:22 am

Argue as you like - the fact remains that Nazis are considered a universal enemy. If you want to be unique, fine. Just remember well the consequences that you inherit with your ambition.

by **North East Somerset** » Sun Mar 01, 2015 11:26 am

Marelius wrote:Yes, i intend to work with the right wing, aka fascists and nazis. We still remain part of raider unity and don't intend on abondining our friends. I also don't see by which logic does our alliance with TIC stop us from raiding with GGR and NE. More on this on the next regional update.

This is totally unnacceptable in my opinion, and I will be advising regions I'm involved with to avoid working with you on any diplomatic or military endeavours.

by **Ambroscus Koth** » Sun Mar 01, 2015 11:27 am

KaelThas Quilor wrote:
Corvus Corax wrote:
Then it should be condemned also for it's anti-fascist ties.

Why? Anti-fascist regions, while sanctimonious and annoying, don't elicit the same kind of...reaction that Nazi and Fascist regions do.

This right here is the post that says the most about the REAL priorities of Gameplay.

Hardly anyone actually gives a shit about hunting Nazis because of their vague moral high ground. Nope. It's just an easy group to rally against, good for farming political points. It's actually really stupid, in my opinion. Nobody will work up a fuss over Stalinist regions, or North Korea themed regions, it's not as universally hate-able, even if just as terrible.

If this is the path you want to go down, and accept the consequences of being marginalized by the greater GP world, go for it. Maybe you'll end up making a point about how petty this all is.

by **Venico** » Sun Mar 01, 2015 11:44 am

Edited some grammar mistakes but otherwise intact.

by **Shadoke** » Mon Mar 02, 2015 7:30 am

I would like to state that I agree with Venico. I IRL am against the extreme right wing, but as this is a game I can separate RL from it.

EDIT: Rephrased a bit

by **Rifty** » Mon Mar 02, 2015 8:17 am

Eh...I swear for like the first time ever I got to disagree with someone on this time; DAMN! I was on a roll...

The biggest problem with this is the normalization around the Fascism through these behaviours. Than we will have people claiming "Oh but it's just a game" when it is a bit more than that. The game behind NS isn't about saving princess peach or getting a high score - Id argue that the game itself is the community and the little dramas that spur from it.

When we log out we can't just assume we can wipe our hands clean and say to ourselves that it's alright because we aren't Nazis in real life - Why? Because if anyone else has had a similar experience on this site NS doesn't end when I log off. Across the day I find myself getting messages, tagged in posts on facebook or called by fellow nation states players. I have recieved texts saying to say safe because there was a cyclone in queensland all the way to having a certain someone trying to call me when I was out for dinner. We may log out of our nations but we never log out of the community.

How is this important? Well because we can never fully pull away from it without ending our time on this site and ignoring those we've met and for that reason we can't just wipe our hands clean after raiding a region named after a little girl who died in a concentration camp run by Nazis - Yet we wish to emulate a similar action on a game? No...

I guess that's why I and others have issues with it - That it normalizes a view in a game that is community based.

EDIT:

I forgot to say how in Gameplay we can't exactly claim what we do and how we act is a Persona. Roleplayers can but us in gameplay...well most...Can't.

by **Shadoke** » Mon Mar 02, 2015 8:39 am

Shadoke wrote:I would like to state that I agree with Venico. I IRL am against the extreme right wing, but as this is a game I can separate RL from it.

EDIT: Rephrased a bit

However, my WA is staying clear of the mission, The fact of the matter is roleplay or not it is bad subject matter,, and something I do not want to support into the future. I would also stand for this in the form of shunning Imperial Japan roleplaying, as well as the Khan empire. There is enough unique ideas that could be put into play instead of impersonating Real life Murderers and genocidal advocates.

by **KaelThas Quilor** » Mon Mar 02, 2015 10:22 am

If we're going to talk about the normalization of undesireable RL ideaologies - how about communism (lots of deaths there) Stalinism, Juche, etc, and anarchism (also good for causing deaths)?

Oh, wait, we don't.

I don't like Nazis or Fascist regions, but let's can the moralism, else the lovely double-standard will keep being brought ou.

by **Marelius** » Mon Mar 02, 2015 5:08 pm

Sieg Heil!...or not?

In the last two days, it has been brought into the attention of the gameplay community that Ceirien had taken part in a operation lead by several right-wing regions, more specifically fascist and nazi regions. The occurrence escalated into a much expected reaction of several prominent region leaders and similar people declaring their displeased attitude of the situation. Many regions came in to declare that they would not desire a single thread of relations with a region that associates itself with the right wing of NationStates, and that such a road would be quite catastrophic for any region. Post after post, while using different phrasing, basically said the same thing. Such reactions were much anticipated from the gameplay community, as their stance on the right wing has always been very clear.

Now, to shed some light on the recent event that has directed so much attention to Ceirien, i'd like to make an official statement. I have contacted a couple leaders of prominent right wing regions, with a proposal of friendly relations and joint military operations. Though at first they had some doubt as to why i would consider destroying my reputation in front the entirety of gameplay, i shortly made clear that my intentions are lacking any attempt to fool them, and that i am genuinely interested in working with them. That assurance brought in a positive reaction, and they were very pleased that i Ceirien would support their operations. Immediately after that, i gave the order to back up the joint forces of the right wing in their occupation of National Socialist Republics. After a couple hours, a few of Ceirien's soldiers saw the order and made their way into the region, endorsing the WA Delegate. I stopped checking NS via phone because i had something RL related to do, and went on to do my business. A short time after that, my co-founders Festavo and NEO Rome Republic, issued an order that canceled the one i gave out, hence stopping any further involvement in the operation. The next morning i saw this i was sort of pissed, though in the end i can very much understand why they did it.

In any case, i went off to the Ruling Trinity chat to discuss what happened. Festavo and NEO expressed their opinions, which i hoped i would somehow manage to evade, or flip to my side. However, Festavo stood by his ground through the whole discussion and didn't intend on budging one bit. The outcome of the discussion became apparent to me, and it made me bummed out. But as i felt that i was choosing the right path for my region, and was determined to go through it, i made a final statement. I proclaimed that i would stick to the plan, as i believe it is what's best for the region, and that if they feel they are endangered by it or disapprove i would hold no grudges for their resignations. Though it was a harsh decision to make, i felt that only being straightforward would bring any fruit from the meeting. With me making the final statement, Festavo gave his resignation to me and said his goodbyes to the region. NEO said that he would have to think of what his decision is, and that he would later come with his final verdict.

So to finally clear up as to what direction Ceirien will be taking, and what i will be working for in the future. We will give our total support, and will fully cooperate with the right wing, and with regions such as the Greater German Reich and Nazi Europa. Should things go well, and there's no real reason they shouldn't, Ceirien will have great relations with the majority, if not the entirety, of the right wing and will leave it's mark on that side of history. The region itself, however, will not be neither a nazi nor a fascist region. In fact, i've taken the liberty of finally writing up the papers on an ideology i had stored in my head. This will be the new official ideology of the religion, but will not be enforced on any of the region's members, since that would go against one of the main principles of the ideology. For any of you who wish to read up on Pranicism and what it stands for, you can do it here. That all being said, i very much except that the grand majority of gameplay will close it's relations with us, and that we will be practically shunned from the mainstream community, and many others. But the idea that we would be completely exiled is a false one. We would not be isolated, we would simply change the circle we associate with. All regions we currently have ties with are more than welcome to cut them and turn the other way, if they feel that this turn of events will somehow hurt them. Ceirien has no use of platonic relationships, or false friends. So if you have doubts, or wish to turn back, you won't receive any negative reactions from Ceirien. All those of you who wish to remain our associates, and those of you who still remain personal friends of mine, are much thanked for your genuine friendship and will not be forgotten. I've made this decision after careful deliberation on the matter, and also have some other plans for this, which i will not reveal to the public as it will spoil the fun.

I'd also like to take the time to remind those of you who are hiding behind supposed arguments of morality that this is a game. All the events and occurrences here are simply part of the game, and all the themes of any region or anything remotely similar is simply roleplay. The idea that someone who roleplays as a third reich soldier or leader is actually a neo-nazi in real life makes me question just what process of thought people who give birth to these ideas have. And, as stated above and before this article, there is literally no core difference between roleplaying as a nazi officer, a communist commissar, or a Turkish general. It's all in good fun, and should under no circumstances be taken seriously. In terms of community and people, that's just something that usually can't be objectified. But i personally find that the people i've met so far are good folks, who are much similar to the majority of other gameplayers i consider close. Hence, i feel like the bias against the right wing is somewhat ridiculous, but i don't intend on attempting to change that.

by **Tim Stark** » Mon Mar 02, 2015 5:33 pm

Tim Stark wrote:I can certainly confirm Osiris will not be working with Ceirien while it is supporting Right Wing operations, and hopefully we won't be the only ones.

Given that Ceirien's statement hasn't changed my thoughts on the matter at all, I can reaffirm my previous stance.

by **Valrifell** » Mon Mar 02, 2015 5:35 pm

Kudos to you for not giving a shit about what anyone in the GP community thinks. No, this is not sarcasm, you fought for what you thought would be the better route for your region to take and while I think that path wasn't right (not for morality reasons, mind you, but an understanding that this shunning would happen) I can admire the will to keep going in spite of the GP elite.

Also, bonus points for creating a new NS ideology and not naming it after your NS name.

by **Lord Ravenclaw** » Mon Mar 02, 2015 5:38 pm

I have to ask this: Who are you and why do you matter? I've never heard of either you or this region you claim to be part of. All I'm seeing is a wall of text that doesn't actually tell me anything I want to know about why you've apparently being working with people abhorred across NationStates.

So a TL;DR version please?

by **Valrifell** » Mon Mar 02, 2015 5:42 pm

Lord Ravenclaw wrote:I have to ask this: Who are you and why do you matter? I've never heard of either you or this region you claim to be part of. All I'm seeing is a wall of text that doesn't actually tell me anything I want to know about why you've apparently being working with people abhorred across NationStates.

So a TL;DR version please?

TLDR: This is a ideological neutral region with the intent on working with the NS Far Right.

by **Lord Ravenclaw** » Mon Mar 02, 2015 5:43 pm

Valrifell wrote:
Lord Ravenclaw wrote:I have to ask this: Who are you and why do you matter? I've never heard of either you or this region you claim to be part of. All I'm seeing is a wall of text that doesn't actually tell me anything I want to know about why you've apparently being working with people abhorred across NationStates.

So a TL;DR version please?

TLDR: This is a ideological neutral region with the intent on working with the NS Far Right.

I see. Do they have alliances with any major powers in the game, including any feeders or sinkers?

by **Valrifell** » Mon Mar 02, 2015 5:47 pm

Lord Ravenclaw wrote:
Valrifell wrote:
TLDR: This is a ideological neutral region with the intent on working with the NS Far Right.

I see. Do they have alliances with any major powers in the game, including any feeders or sinkers?

To my understanding, nothing formal.

The Imperium of Ceirien: Going right!

Who is online