NationStates

New people join, get sucked in, get lied to for a few months, then defend him when others step in and go "this guy was slowly killing the region!" I mean, seriously. Read the RMB. I've averaged finding 1-2 blatant lies to the public per week A recent example? Regional pop jumped 80ish blatant NS++ pups in two days. RIfty and other called him out on flooding it with puppets. To the people, it was "effective recruitment." Months later, when they all CTE'd in two days, it was "normal CTE's" and "I need to start up recruitment again, don't I?" Those of us not being fed bull can see, but we can't do anything. We're called liars and evil people by Neph, banjected and threatened with GHR's for harassment, and the players are too new to understand for themselves that the 80 nations who moved to the region directly after being born, with one of the limited standard random options for NS++ motto and customizeables, a default flag, a recognizably gibberish name, and no activity since that day are clear puppets, and take the word of their fatherly founder figure as pure truth. It hurts me, physically makes me mad, to see this, but there's nothing I can do anymore.

Ridersyl wrote:Now that Nephmir got back control of his region...

He's going to resign like he was planning to do before all of this

Nephmir wrote:And to everyone, I was going to resign anyway...

and start anew with a new character that's less radical

Nephmir wrote:I'm done pretending to be a radicalist. I'm going to take on a new character now, but with the same nation.

like he said back when it looked like he had completely lost control... right? Right??

Nope. Because he sticks to his word like a bandaid sticks to wet skin.

How does this guy keep getting people to defend him? How does he keep getting people to follow him? Is gullibility that strong? Is stupidity that widespread? Is nonsense that attractive? Is double-speak that inconsequential? As an intelligent human being, consider me confused and concerned.

Maybe, in the imaginary roleplayed universe that is gameplay, where all of our social and political norms are artificial, and every conceivable viewpoint on how something should be done is a matter of opinion, there are people who have a different point of view. There are also people who take issue with some of the exceptionally vile nations that mock Nephmir for entertainment, and you only need to read this thread without taking the target of the abuse into account to see examples of it.

Klaus Devestatorie wrote:

Ridersyl wrote:Now that Nephmir got back control of his region...

He's going to resign like he was planning to do before all of this



and start anew with a new character that's less radical




like he said back when it looked like he had completely lost control... right? Right??

Nope. Because he sticks to his word like a bandaid sticks to wet skin.

How does this guy keep getting people to defend him? How does he keep getting people to follow him? Is gullibility that strong? Is stupidity that widespread? Is nonsense that attractive? Is double-speak that inconsequential? As an intelligent human being, consider me confused and concerned.

Maybe, in the imaginary roleplayed universe that is gameplay, where all of our social and political norms are artificial, and every conceivable viewpoint on how something should be done is a matter of opinion, there are people who have a different point of view. There are also people who take issue with some of the exceptionally vile nations that mock Nephmir for entertainment, and you only need to read this thread without taking the target of the abuse into account to see examples of it.

Examples please, which vile nations mocking him for entertainement in this thread and where?

We have since requested some form of clarification from the mods about this situation, since it seemed contrary to the established rules. The thread is here should anyone wish to express an opinion: viewtopic.php?f=16&t=323457

I admit I think it unlikely the mods will actually be willing to discuss the matter, given their preference for not debating mod decisions with the general public, but alas, we shall try.

Consular wrote:I admit I think it unlikely the mods will actually be willing to discuss the matter, given their preference for not debating mod decisions with the general public, but alas, we shall try.

That's a unnecessarily unpleasant way to look at it. I've been extremely open in the Moderation thread, and I've already set up the evidence thread in our Secret Lair for the other mods to review. All this happened fairly late on a weekend evening (US time), and almost none of the other mods have even logged on since this all started. Whatever happens won't happen instantly, so how about a little patience, please.

Frisbeeteria wrote:

Consular wrote:I admit I think it unlikely the mods will actually be willing to discuss the matter, given their preference for not debating mod decisions with the general public, but alas, we shall try.

That's a unnecessarily unpleasant way to look at it. I've been extremely open in the Moderation thread, and I've already set up the evidence thread in our Secret Lair for the other mods to review. All this happened fairly late on a weekend evening (US time), and almost none of the other mods have even logged on since this all started. Whatever happens won't happen instantly, so how about a little patience, please.

I prefer to have low expectations. That way I won't be terribly annoyed if nothing happens, and can be pleasantly surprised if something does.

But my apologies if I've seemed unfair anywhere, that is not at all my intention.

Frisbeeteria wrote:

Consular wrote:I admit I think it unlikely the mods will actually be willing to discuss the matter, given their preference for not debating mod decisions with the general public, but alas, we shall try.

That's a unnecessarily unpleasant way to look at it. I've been extremely open in the Moderation thread, and I've already set up the evidence thread in our Secret Lair for the other mods to review. All this happened fairly late on a weekend evening (US time), and almost none of the other mods have even logged on since this all started. Whatever happens won't happen instantly, so how about a little patience, please.

I'll second that your initial post there is what made me at least come to discuss constructively, rather than whine here (plus I figured I might be a bit nicer about it than a few who've expressed...disappointment... with me offsite ). I'll await this review patiently, as I know not everyone is up at 3:11am on NS like me

Look guys moderators are people too - and with everyone controlled by people there is a place for error. This may have been a screw up and in such a case the moderators will fix the mistake. I doubt they deliberately wake up in the morning and go "he fuck it - I'm going to waste my time screwing over the new king of TEK. Lol, trolling is fun"

They waste their time on here to keep the site running at a standard of civility - I can't say I agree with all their decisions or the rules of this site. However it's all done with the intention of making NS better for us - not to fuck us over.

Klaus Devestatorie wrote:<snip>

Maybe, in the imaginary roleplayed universe that is gameplay, where all of our social and political norms are artificial, and every conceivable viewpoint on how something should be done is a matter of opinion, there are people who have a different point of view. There are also people who take issue with some of the exceptionally vile nations that mock Nephmir for entertainment, and you only need to read this thread without taking the target of the abuse into account to see examples of it.[/quote]
^^^^ This. I could not agree more.

Cormac Stark wrote:

Rifty wrote:Oh please Cormac - These tactics are the equivalent of a coup in the GCRs. It happens. Of all regions for this to happen to TEK was the one that needed it.

Either way - seems fishy. Doubt any of this is true

No, they really aren't. Coups in GCRs involve getting the endorsements of other nations -- either natives, through deception, or external invaders, or a combination -- in order to take the Delegacy, or getting a Delegate nation willingly handed to you. This was taking control of a shared nation without permission. It's phishing, and it's not a legitimate tactic.

Absolutely. This was definitely a questionable decision and I am glad that the region was returned to Nephmir.

Let me put aside my differences with TEK and Nephmir for a second to say this...

This is the same user that challenged TBR, all defenders, and every GCR all at once to start off the year. He's an unabashed radical GPer in the ilk of Codger, who is boastful, is not afraid to taunt anyone no matter their standing or power, and is constantly planning like one of those cliche evil geniuses. Due to poor planning, poor execution, inciting the wrath of everyone, sabotage, lack of proper tools, and a lack of allies, Nephmir has had poor success in Gameplay thus far.

I believe even Nephmir understands why he gets this kind of grief. He talks a big game and is a radical player, but all of that drew attention to him and each subsequent failure hit him and his region extremely hard. Despite his best efforts to play the PR game and backtrack from the radical publicized agenda in January that put TEK in everyone's crosshairs and disallowed it from getting through its growing pains, the hits just kept coming and then the core of TEK split to become Sicarius. Then it seemed like something controversial came up every month, even if it didn't involve an operation. Forum threads were getting locked left and right, the drama was ridiculous, the Milograd incident happened at some point. Nephmir got Rifty to merge his region with TEK, but that relationship went so horrible that now the two are actively going against each others' interests. Then TEK shut down and reopened anew... then it its first big hurrah, defending APN after their founder got deleted by the mods, was short-lived as Rifty's region overthrew their native delegate and had them all kicked out. Now you've got this incident with Nephmir temporarily losing his region.

A player that has this level of bravado and confidence, and such a putrid track record, is going to end up receiving this sort of treatment from some people. You want me to read the thread without taking into account the target of the abuse? Yeah, I'm sure I would be shocked at the comments I'd see. Thankfully we are blessed with this thing called context.

To add to my chunk, I also don't like be lied to-

Nephmir wrote:As a note, Anders did not have the password for months as EWS claims.

viewtopic.php?f=12&t=314829&p=22243811#p22243586
WFE archive from that exact date naming Anders as Bishop and therefore by that forum post having founder access

Ridersyl wrote:Let me put aside my differences with TEK and Nephmir for a second to say this...

This is the same user that challenged TBR, all defenders, and every GCR all at once to start off the year. He's an unabashed radical GPer in the ilk of Codger, who is boastful, is not afraid to taunt anyone no matter their standing or power, and is constantly planning like one of those cliche evil geniuses. Due to poor planning, poor execution, inciting the wrath of everyone, sabotage, lack of proper tools, and a lack of allies, Nephmir has had poor success in Gameplay thus far.

I believe even Nephmir understands why he gets this kind of grief. He talks a big game and is a radical player, but all of that drew attention to him and each subsequent failure hit him and his region extremely hard. Despite his best efforts to play the PR game and backtrack from the radical publicized agenda in January that put TEK in everyone's crosshairs and disallowed it from getting through its growing pains, the hits just kept coming and then the core of TEK split to become Sicarius. Then it seemed like something controversial came up every month, even if it didn't involve an operation. Forum threads were getting locked left and right, the drama was ridiculous, the Milograd incident happened at some point. Nephmir got Rifty to merge his region with TEK, but that relationship went so horrible that now the two are actively going against each others' interests. Then TEK shut down and reopened anew... then it its first big hurrah, defending APN after their founder got deleted by the mods, was short-lived as Rifty's region overthrew their native delegate and had them all kicked out. Now you've got this incident with Nephmir temporarily losing his region.

A player that has this level of bravado and confidence, and such a putrid track record, is going to end up receiving this sort of treatment from some people. You want me to read the thread without taking into account the target of the abuse? Yeah, I'm sure I would be shocked at the comments I'd see. Thankfully we are blessed with this thing called context.

The correct and proper thing to say, then, is "You are hilariously bad at this". Optionally, with a "maybe you should stop trying". Not what's being said in the earlier stages of this thread. I don't believe the political context excuses the comments, even if they are inevitable. Those comments simply tell me who isn't worth taking seriously in the political context- if they can't approach the topic of Nephmir in a rational manner, God help them when they have to deal with something important.

I assure you, I'm a far bit more polite towards those who haven't stabbed me in the back, slandered me, blocked telegrams from me, and lied to their own people in a most blatant way. I have little respect left for that man at this point. He's had his second chances, and his third, and his forth - seeing him briefly get a taste of his own medicne, while not necessarily something I would have done myself, wasn't exactly unpleasant either.

I'd like to thank everyone for the encouraging telegrams... you've helped me realize that I am not hated on NationStates, but the minority that hate me are just loud and obnoxious.

If I am permitted to keep my founder puppet and remain in control of the region, I will be focusing on fixing the damages and remaking the region anew with a clear alignment and active community, and perhaps some allies.

I still don't want to be a founder/King... but I don't have a choice but to fix TEK for the next in line... whoever that may be. Rest assured though that I am done with my extremist character as promised and I apologize for my previous comment that nobody on NationStates has honor- for the vast majority of honorable NSers are often silent and can easily be missed.

Nephmir wrote:I'd like to thank everyone for the encouraging telegrams... you've helped me realize that I am not hated on NationStates, but the minority that hate me are just loud and obnoxious.

If I am permitted to keep my founder puppet and remain in control of the region, I will be focusing on fixing the damages and remaking the region anew with a clear alignment and active community, and perhaps some allies.

I still don't want to be a founder/King... but I don't have a choice but to fix TEK for the next in line... whoever that may be. Rest assured though that I am done with my extremist character as promised and I apologize for my previous comment that nobody on NationStates has honor- for the vast majority of honorable NSers are often silent and can easily be missed.

Fourth time's the charm?

I wonder, if maybe the fact that now three consecutive governments have turned on you, has less to do with them all being dishonorable bastards, and more with the common thing they all walked away from....

We've heard the "I'm picking a side" line before, but I'll wait another month or two before I call this one BS as well.

To clear things up I SHOULD have had access to the founder when promoted to Bishop, but I didn't until the day of the coup.

But he did give you access freely and willingly by virtue of your rank within the region?

Emperor Septim wrote:But he did give you access freely and willingly by virtue of your rank within the region?

Yes, aside from the rank of Bishop which I held before, he made a "Council of Kings" I believe the day that I couped, which implies equal rank among the three members. Which were Gharan, himself, and myself. In both ranks I was willingly given access by Nephmir, even encouraged to recruit from the founder account.

Being frank I could care less who holds the account at this point - What I need to know is how this event his different to both Festavo/Me and Khroan (didn't spell it right). How the events are counted as different and then how they were moderated different.

If all the murder cases seem to get you an average 15 years imprisonment - then one day someone gets 25 years. I want to know how what they did was more sever than my own.

Rifty wrote:Being frank I could care less who holds the account at this point - What I need to know is how this event his different to both Festavo/Me and Khroan (didn't spell it right). How the events are counted as different and then how they were moderated different.

If all the murder cases seem to get you an average 15 years imprisonment - then one day someone gets 25 years. I want to know how what they did was more sever than my own.

Probably best not to argue the mod decision here. There's a separate discussion thread for that.

I can remember something similar happening with the founder of Unknown a long time ago. Not sure if his account was hacked at the time or if it was a case of sharing the founder details with the wrong person. I am pretty sure the founder details were shared but memory is blurry on that.

The founder nation was returned at that time to the rightful owner when the rouge starting purging the region. He was able to prove ownership as the email history was known to him along with initial IP. Again this is a long time ago and information is second hand.

Sichuan Pepper wrote:I can remember something similar happening with the founder of Unknown a long time ago. Not sure if his account was hacked at the time or if it was a case of sharing the founder details with the wrong person. I am pretty sure the founder details were shared but memory is blurry on that.

The founder nation was returned at that time to the rightful owner when the rouge starting purging the region. He was able to prove ownership as the email history was known to him along with initial IP. Again this is a long time ago and information is second hand.

I was the creator and original controller of the founder nation. I later gave Savaer shared access to it when I gave command of the region to him. After a bunch of stuff I won't get into here (in no small part because my own memory is fuzzy on some of the stuff), I locked him out. I then gave the founder nation to another guy, Rougiers, who started kicking everyone out of the region. Even though I was the original founder and had given the account to Rougiers, it was restored to Savaer under circumstances I don't know the precise details of, but something akin to what you described. I never bothered to challenge the decision at the time since I regretted doing it in the first place.

I have been given back the TEK Founder nation by the mods, and all punishment rescinded. The King is back.

It's a Christmas miracle!

Just a heads up before anything bad happens - I don't want to see any gloating over the decision in this thread.