NS World Fair III

[Ynys Prydain]

On the other hand, there are those of us who just accept that the destruction of a community and all of its records -- which does not occur in "griefing" -- is just unacceptable.

How does forcefully refounding a region without an offsite forum not destroy its records and history?

Well, for starters, that's exceptionally rare in post-influence, post-liberation resolution NationStates so it's a bit of a non-starter. It happens but not often enough to actually active communities to be really relevant. Forum destruction, on the other hand, typically targets large and active communities that have spent hours upon hours -- in some cases years -- on building their communities.

Second, hostile refounding is a now intentional feature of the game's design. NationStates administrators have made a conscious, intentional decision to permit the destruction of regions through hostile refounding. Contrast this with forum destruction, which is never intentionally permitted and is not a built in feature of the game. It's like DDoSing someone for shooting you in an online multiplayer video game; it's an over the top, inappropriate, unacceptable OOC/non-game reaction to IC/in-game action.

[North East Somerset]

Again, I couldn't agree more (with the Island of Britain) - and I've been saying broadly this, for years.

[Unibot III]

How does forcefully refounding a region without an offsite forum not destroy its records and history?

Well, for starters, that's exceptionally rare in post-influence, post-liberation resolution NationStates so it's a bit of a non-starter. It happens but not often enough to actually active communities to be really relevant. Forum destruction, on the other hand, typically targets large and active communities that have spent hours upon hours -- in some cases years -- on building their communities.

That's just as common as forum destruction (which happens, what, once a year?). *shrugs* I'm also not sure how "common" X is should have an effect on how much we should care about X not happening.

Second, hostile refounding is a now intentional feature of the game's design. NationStates administrators have made a conscious, intentional decision to permit the destruction of regions through hostile refounding.

[violet] has long held that the intention of the site admins in integrating griefing into the site was not to encourage that behavior or to signal its ethical permissibility, but instead, to relieve the moderation staff and to give players more choices and, as of result, more dilemmas.

Furthermore, it wouldn't exactly be consistent for me to find players can't also just disagree with the site staff on some issues.

[Unibot III]

So when will you start taking nominations for the host of the next world fair?

We're open to bids now.

[Railana]

Reading the WA lectures from last year makes me sad. The WA has if anything gone backwards since then. Hot air for naught.

Oh, we'll repeal GAR #2 eventually. Mousebumples won't be delegate of Europeia forever...

[Lamoni]

Reading the WA lectures from last year makes me sad. The WA has if anything gone backwards since then. Hot air for naught.

Oh, we'll repeal GAR #2 eventually. Mousebumples won't be delegate of Europeia forever...

Seriously? There is point to repealing GAR #2, and I had thought that we were all past this BS.

[Glen-Rhodes]

Oh, we'll repeal GAR #2 eventually. Mousebumples won't be delegate of Europeia forever...

Seriously? There is point to repealing GAR #2, and I had thought that we were all past this BS.

It's the source of many problems and a symbol of a style of interpretation many people have serious issues with. Of course we're not all "past this BS."

[The Dark Star Republic]

Reading the WA lectures from last year makes me sad. The WA has if anything gone backwards since then. Hot air for naught.

Oh, we'll repeal GAR #2 eventually. Mousebumples won't be delegate of Europeia forever...

No, but by then, she will be a game mod. In the unlikely event of a successful attempt not being deleted for some reason, I still wouldn't bank on the rules environment actually changing at all.

Anyway, looking forward to the Fair regardless.

[Unibot III]

Oh, we'll repeal GAR #2 eventually. Mousebumples won't be delegate of Europeia forever...

Mousebumples isn't the big opposition to the proposal. Her endorsements and Europeia's endorsements have been dropping for years.



At 155, Europeia is not indestructible. But at 520, The North Pacific is a formidable force - and TNP and Europeia have tied each other together in WA Affairs through the World Assembly Legislative League, plus r3naissanc3r's personal connections with Europeia as an admin and current Chief of Staff, not to mention his long history there.

Assuming Balder doesn't vote in time, ceteris paribus suggests that we'd face a stomp force of 675. A very, very organised group of regional powers could take that down them. Here's some possibilities, assuming I'll be delegate and positive about stacking a repeal:

Smallest coalition in terms of actors (also in practical terms, the second least likely): 692. 10KI, TWP and TRR.

Some of my favourite combinations:

932. TWP, TSP, TEP, TRR and Lazarus.
802. TWP, TSP, TEP and TRR.
727. TSP, TEP, TRR, Lazarus and (Spiritus or RIA).
687. TSP, TEP, TRR and Lazarus.

Largest coalition in terms of actors (in practical terms, the least likely): 1421. Pipe dream. 10KI, TWP, TSP, TEP, TRR, Lazarus, CP, Spiritus or RIA.

If I were a WA Author still, I'd run on the yellow pick. That one is ace. Gives you a 52 margin against the immediate (and obvious) challengers. The blue pick is more easily done (less actors), but riskier -- I would only run the blue out of desperation and hope you pick up some votes that you hadn't anticipated.

The next challenge would be rapid fire counter-counter-campaigning against Mousebumples and AO. In the last campaign, she focused on using shock-and-awe -- a grossly deceptive dispatch. Dispatches are easily to knock out - just organize people to down-vote. Plus they're not very effective anyways. You got to run a ground campaign, tunnel through the shit and tell two lies to every lie they tell. There's no reason to hold back on telegramming people who switch - either you've lost their vote or you don't. If you're in the lead in the first sixteen hours or so, you should be all set, so long as you're pro-active, not reactive about squeezing 'em.

The late threat comes from Mousebumbles, Ard, Mallorea or someone else pulling a Deus ex machina. Hard to stop that I'm afraid - you're best bet is to make friends with some of the non-aligned moderators and simultaneously threaten a major public outbreak of Rule IV scale but through a veiled manner - you don't want to encourage them to play your final sanction. The mods have to take a kind of vote on the matter and not all of them are going to be enthusiastic about engaging in two weeks of headaches just so the Noggers on their staff' can carry through with their pet project.

Some other immeadite thoughts,

• In Mid-January, TNP General Elections conclude. The new delegate will be at his/her lowest endorsement count when r3n steps down. Likewise Lazarus and TSP's endorsement counts should be in good strength. That's when I'd run this one - it's a sleepy period, so what stackers are on have more influence on the final vote than during active periods.
• Mousebumbles can only be removed through her own incompetence or a Senate vote.
• You need friends who can organise and lead a credible public campaign in response to Mod Corruption if they were to pull a "nah, this repeal is illegal" out of thin air. A few populists, a few egoists. Some big names and a nice slogan - like "It's Just Politics" (which was easily one of the most boneheaded PR statements in a while).
• All of this is more possible if political change happens in TNP - which happens often.

[North East Somerset]

Oh, we'll repeal GAR #2 eventually. Mousebumples won't be delegate of Europeia forever...

Mousebumples isn't the big opposition to the proposal. Her endorsements and Europeia's endorsements have been dropping for years.



At 155, Europeia is not indestructible. But at 520, The North Pacific is a formidable force - and TNP and Europeia have tied each other together in WA Affairs through the World Assembly Legislative League, plus r3naissanc3r's personal connections with Europeia as an admin and current Chief of Staff, not to mention his long history there.

Assuming Balder doesn't vote in time, ceteris paribus suggests that we'd face a stomp force of 675. A very, very organised group of regional powers could take that down them. Here's some possibilities, assuming I'll be delegate and positive about stacking a repeal:

Smallest coalition in terms of actors (also in practical terms, the second least likely): 692. 10KI, TWP and TRR.

Some of my favourite combinations:

932. TWP, TSP, TEP, TRR and Lazarus.
802. TWP, TSP, TEP and TRR.
727. TSP, TEP, TRR, Lazarus and (Spiritus or RIA).
687. TSP, TEP, TRR and Lazarus.

Largest coalition in terms of actors (in practical terms, the least likely): 1421. Pipe dream. 10KI, TWP, TSP, TEP, TRR, Lazarus, CP, Spiritus or RIA.

If I were a WA Author still, I'd run on the yellow pick. That one is ace. Gives you a 52 margin against the immediate (and obvious) challengers. The blue pick is more easily done (less actors), but riskier -- I would only run the blue out of desperation and hope you pick up some votes that you hadn't anticipated.

The next challenge would be rapid fire counter-counter-campaigning against Mousebumples and AO. In the last campaign, she focused on using shock-and-awe -- a grossly deceptive dispatch. Dispatches are easily to knock out - just organize people to down-vote. Plus they're not very effective anyways. You got to run a ground campaign, tunnel through the shit and tell two lies to every lie they tell. There's no reason to hold back on telegramming people who switch - either you've lost their vote or you don't. If you're in the lead in the first sixteen hours or so, you should be all set, so long as you're pro-active, not reactive about squeezing 'em.

The late threat comes from Mousebumbles, Ard, Mallorea or someone else pulling a Deus ex machina. Hard to stop that I'm afraid - you're best bet is to make friends with some of the non-aligned moderators and simultaneously threaten a major public outbreak of Rule IV scale but through a veiled manner - you don't want to encourage them to play your final sanction. The mods have to take a kind of vote on the matter and not all of them are going to be enthusiastic about engaging in two weeks of headaches just so the Noggers on their staff' can carry through with their pet project.

Some other immeadite thoughts,

• In Mid-January, TNP General Elections conclude. The new delegate will be at his/her lowest endorsement count when r3n steps down. Likewise Lazarus and TSP's endorsement counts should be in good strength. That's when I'd run this one - it's a sleepy period, so what stackers are on have more influence on the final vote than during active periods.
• Mousebumbles can only be removed through her own incompetence or a Senate vote.
• You need friends who can organise and lead a credible public campaign in response to Mod Corruption if they were to pull a "nah, this repeal is illegal" out of thin air. A few populists, a few egoists. Some big names and a nice slogan - like "It's Just Politics" (which was easily one of the most boneheaded PR statements in a while).
• All of this is more possible if political change happens in TNP - which happens often.

My fav bits from this post:

"tell two lies to every lie they tell" - double is overkill surely! Unless this is why you were so effective in the WA...

&

"Mousebumbles can only be removed through her own incompetence or a Senate vote" - what I love here is you actually bothered reading through Europeian law to see if Mouse could be easily removed, as if that was a serious option.

[Glen-Rhodes]

Lol NES, lying in the WA is basically a requirement. When unibot was in the WA, he was actually one of the more honest people. He was successful because he worked behind the scenes to form relationships and strike deals, something nobody else did or really does. Nobody in the WA but Unibot would have done the kind of number crunching and political analysis like he just did (and it probably took him like 10 minutes at most).

I always get a kick out of non-WA players making comments about the WA. It really is a different world, so you guys should be careful when trying to make a zinger.

[The Dark Star Republic]

The late threat comes from Mousebumbles, Ard, Mallorea or someone else pulling a Deus ex machina. Hard to stop that I'm afraid - you're best bet is to make friends with some of the non-aligned moderators and simultaneously threaten a major public outbreak of Rule IV scale but through a veiled manner - you don't want to encourage them to play your final sanction. The mods have to take a kind of vote on the matter and not all of them are going to be enthusiastic about engaging in two weeks of headaches just so the Noggers on their staff' can carry through with their pet project.
...
You need friends who can organise and lead a credible public campaign in response to Mod Corruption if they were to pull a "nah, this repeal is illegal" out of thin air. A few populists, a few egoists. Some big names and a nice slogan - like "It's Just Politics" (which was easily one of the most boneheaded PR statements in a while).

It really amazes me at times like this how someone who plays the game as intensively as you do can be so completely out of touch with how the WA works.

The other analysis was interesting, though.

[DWAsnia]

I think most delegates of CP would vote to repeal GAR#2, so that's 100 votes or so that way.

[North East Somerset]

Lol NES, lying in the WA is basically a requirement. When unibot was in the WA, he was actually one of the more honest people. He was successful because he worked behind the scenes to form relationships and strike deals, something nobody else did or really does. Nobody in the WA but Unibot would have done the kind of number crunching and political analysis like he just did (and it probably took him like 10 minutes at most).

I always get a kick out of non-WA players making comments about the WA. It really is a different world, so you guys should be careful when trying to make a zinger.

I must say, his addition and subtraction skills truly astound me. Maybe one day I'll possess somewhere near his level of political acumen, and won't be able to throw indeterminate amounts of time at the game - but in the mean time, I'll just have to stare up in amazement.

[Unibot III]

Lol NES, lying in the WA is basically a requirement. When unibot was in the WA, he was actually one of the more honest people. He was successful because he worked behind the scenes to form relationships and strike deals, something nobody else did or really does. Nobody in the WA but Unibot would have done the kind of number crunching and political analysis like he just did (and it probably took him like 10 minutes at most).

I always get a kick out of non-WA players making comments about the WA. It really is a different world, so you guys should be careful when trying to make a zinger.

I would say the GA was about twice as cut-throat as Gameplay - and I think Gameplay is pretty cut-throat.

NES, for example, is actually a remarkably consistent fellow. He usually speaks clearly in private. My opponents in the WA were not like that. We treated each other as if we were different species and you were guaranteed to have run through every human emotion by the end of the normal legislative process: joy, sorrow, hatred, contempt, misery, desperation and sheer unadulterated vindication. It was exhausting and personally corrupting. I find I get more long-term enjoyment out of Gameplay because you make a lot of friends and you're building a region, the enjoyment I got out of the WA was more temporal like being a heroin junkie -- you needed a new project after new project to keep the high going. It helps to have a lot of energy, grow a tough skin and focus on your sabermetrics when trying to pass a resolution. Don't focus on pleasing your opponents, focus on pleasing the people you need to get the thing passed.

[North East Somerset]

you were guaranteed to have run through every human emotion by the end of the normal legislative process: joy, sorrow, hatred, contempt, misery, desperation and sheer unadulterated vindication. It was exhausting and personally corrupting.

I dunno. I'm skeptical...

NES, for example, is actually a remarkably consistent fellow.

Finally.... a Unibot quote without expletives, for my sig...

[Unibot III]

Finally.... a Unibot quote without expletives, for my sig...

Merry Christmas.

[Anonymouslands]

Did anyone bid?

[Unibot III]

Not yet, but there's still eighteen days to go for submissions.

[Anonymouslands]

Not yet, but there's still eighteen days to go for submissions.

Maybe no one will bid, then I can bid and win!

[Unibot III]

Five days left for bids!

[Benevolent Thomas]

Five days left for bids!

How many you got? If there's hardly any, I might throw a bid in just for the heck of it.

[Unibot III]

Five days left for bids!

If there's hardly any, I might throw a bid in just for the heck of it.

I'd encourage you to make a bid.

[Tancerlo]

We'll likely be making a bid. We just enjoy leaving everything we do til the absolute last minute.

[Todd McCloud]

I (and others presumably) shall wait patiently for bids! I am excited to see what all these regions will come up with!