Gameplay Mentors

[Jeffersonborg]

I don't mind the idea.

Then again, I want people to finally get over their unhealthy attraction to the idea of "regions" and just swear fealty to the gameplay forum...

[The Blaatschapen]

I thought of something else too, or perhaps just a better way to express my earlier ideas.

In RP'ing, or any writing, there's a fairly generally accepted standard of what is "correct" and "good quality." In gameplay, there's just so much variance. Good writing is good writing, but what's good GP'ing? Ask a few people, and you're liable to get a few different answers. Tagging? Occupations? Detagging? Liberations? Mixtures? Having a structured government? Having a purely military focus?

In addition, we've kind of been leaving out non- R&D facets of Gameplay. "Talk about nation management, regional politics, and why llamas are a cooler national animal than squirrels." We get recruitment threads, "new region X!" threads, news threads, etc. Those actually might be more open to a mentor program.... Somebody willing to help you effectively display your region. You can argue the necessity, but I think there's a lot more potential there than in an R/D mentor.

Good GP is for me:

- Getting the stats I want on my nation.
- Developing and maintaining a secure,vibrant and fun regional community

[Ever-Wandering Souls]

Good GP is for me:

- Getting the stats I want on my nation.
- Developing and maintaining a secure,vibrant and fun regional community

That's the kind of thing that mentors for region-building type facets of gameplay culd help with. It'd be more possible, if not incredibly likely, whereas what's basically R/D mentors are probably never going to happen

[Riftend]

I must ask - if this does get implemented how do we think the gameplay mentors would be chosen?

[Shizensky]

It would be nice to see GP focused more on region/community building and less on R/D, and if we saw some kind of mentor program take shape, any mentoring could be done in that department. A lot of people don't realize just how difficult it is to build a lasting community in NS, and that a lot of new regions start by picking a side in R/D right away probably slows them down a ton.

We probably don't need mentors, but maybe it would be a good idea to add a sequel of sorts to the "How to build a region" post that explores techniques that others have used with success. Plenty of people come up with great ideas, but so many of them fail due to the same pitfalls.

[The Church of Satan]

I agree with Shizensky. It is so hard to build a region and keep it going. When I built mine last year I managed to recruit 50 nations, but they were all new players and it is surprisingly difficult to keep them interested in a region. Once you've educated them on the basics of the game they abandon you and join communities that are already large and stable. A few tips to prevent that would be quite nice for those of us that would like to start our own region.

[Sichuan Pepper]

The reality is that a mentor would need to be trustworthy. Given the random threads in Gameplay boasting of how refounds are stolen or regions taken over by sharing access to the founder due to misplaced trust I would have to say a GP mentor is a terrible idea.
Bottom line is invaders cannot be trusted. You all know that already, it is the nature of the beast.

You would also need a division....INVADER gameplay mentor DEFENDER gameplay mentor NEUTRAL gameplay mentor.

[Riftend]

It would be nice to see GP focused more on region/community building and less on R/D, and if we saw some kind of mentor program take shape, any mentoring could be done in that department. A lot of people don't realize just how difficult it is to build a lasting community in NS, and that a lot of new regions start by picking a side in R/D right away probably slows them down a ton.

We probably don't need mentors, but maybe it would be a good idea to add a sequel of sorts to the "How to build a region" post that explores techniques that others have used with success. Plenty of people come up with great ideas, but so many of them fail due to the same pitfalls.

I can see what you mean by the R/D comment. I think though it is very hard for any region not to get involved in the R/D scene. I know here at me region we immediately jumped to the Raider side but I wouldn't call us a raiding group by a long shot. I think mentors are a must for atleast region building.

Also I am currently working on a region building and running guide which I hope will be helpful to the NS community.

I agree with Shizensky. It is so hard to build a region and keep it going. When I built mine last year I managed to recruit 50 nations, but they were all new players and it is surprisingly difficult to keep them interested in a region. Once you've educated them on the basics of the game they abandon you and join communities that are already large and stable. A few tips to prevent that would be quite nice for those of us that would like to start our own region.

Recruitment techniques are developed over time I've noticed. When I first started recruiting around the beginning of the year I noticed how had it was to get some recruits. Than over time I did it more and realised what was efficient and what wasn't.

Now I own a region of nearly 300, very active RMB, large government and much more - we aren't even three months old yet.

The reality is that a mentor would need to be trustworthy. Given the random threads in Gameplay boasting of how refounds are stolen or regions taken over by sharing access to the founder due to misplaced trust I would have to say a GP mentor is a terrible idea.
Bottom line is invaders cannot be trusted. You all know that already, it is the nature of the beast.

You would also need a division....INVADER gameplay mentor DEFENDER gameplay mentor NEUTRAL gameplay mentor.

I don't get what is wrong with the refounds and all the rest - if people were more cautious it wouldn't occur. Not sure if people recall but I committed the GDU incident - 2 months in a region until we got access to the shared admin account. I know for sure I wouldn't like it myself but these things happen. I think this is why gameplay mentors would be useful.

I for one would be pushing people away from shared admin accounts and teaching them on how to effectively refound. However I doubt people deep into raiding would help people out in avoiding these events. I guess you would need people who know what they are doing but aren't a majorly involved in raiding.

Diversifying it does sounds good. I think rathe than a neutral mentor we should have a region building mentor. Focus would be teaching people how to recruit effectively, set up a region, developing a community, running regional events, regional government and much much more.

[Sedgistan]

When the original II Mentor program was set up, the idea of mentors for each forum/community was considered, including Gameplay. They were decided against then, and I haven't seen anything that would change that decision.

There's a number of factors to consider:

• Gameplay differs notably from roleplay in that the latter is collaborative (you can simply ignore another player/group and they can't affect you), whereas gameplay is competitive. That's not to say that gameplayers don't co-operate, but a fundamental part of it is competition between groups. We'd either have to have Mentors that were entirely neutral (good luck finding those) or the program would be dogged by constant accusations that Mentor X is recruiting for their region, or Mentor Y is pushing the imperialist/invader/defender/independent/feederite/francoist/bi-gameplayer/codgerite cause. Moderators don't involve themselves in the game as mods, but we still get "fendamod" and "raidermod" accusations thrown around; Mentors would have to be involved in the game as Mentors to be able to do their job, so we'd have that, just turned up to 11. That would also require an inordinate amount of modly time spent monitoring the program.
• Mentoring already exists. Roleplay (or at least II/P2TM roleplay) is primarily forum-based. Gameplayers are region (or org) based. Any region worth their salt already mentors newcomers. Many even have dedicated programs of their own to get this done.
• I think we'd struggle to get a team of good Mentors. There are gameplayers around who would be excellent at mentoring (Ananke is an example that springs to mind), but most of them are doing it already - and probably have the common sense to not subject themselves to the inevitable abuse that official Mentors would get. There are plenty who would be happy to have the shiny badge, fancy colour and perceived sense of authority, but they're not necessarily the people that would be good at the job. We've seen the attempted mission-creep from existing Roleplay Mentors, and I have no desire to see Gameplay Mentors set themselves up as "representatives of the community", leveraging their position for influence, or attempting to mini-mod.
• There's nothing stopping any of you going and mentoring newcomers. If someone posts in the Gameplay forum and doesn't seem to know what's going on, post some advice in their thread, or send a friendly telegram offering help. Those that have been volunteering to be Mentors - do you do this already, and if so, why not?

(I've left nation-building (i.e. stats, issues and so on) out of this, as that works differently to region-based gameplay.)

We probably don't need mentors, but maybe it would be a good idea to add a sequel of sorts to the "How to build a region" post that explores techniques that others have used with success. Plenty of people come up with great ideas, but so many of them fail due to the same pitfalls.

The existing stickies are getting dated. If someone wants to have a bash at re-doing any of them, I'm more than willing to consider changing the stickies around. If you're going to do that, I'd suggest dropping Naivetry a telegram first to see if she's okay with her stuff being re-used (or is willing to have authorship of the posts transferred to another player).

[Riftend]

The existing stickies are getting dated. If someone wants to have a bash at re-doing any of them, I'm more than willing to consider changing the stickies around. If you're going to do that, I'd suggest dropping Naivetry a telegram first to see if she's okay with her stuff being re-used (or is willing to have authorship of the posts transferred to another player).

Would you mind if I had a shot at re-writing the "How to build a region" sticky? ^-^

I personally feel that a mentor around the running of regions should be available above raiding and defending at the very least. Raiding and defending can be as simple as reading a guide and than going on a few raids/defends with a group. However running a region is constantly changing and needing assistance.

[Sedgistan]

You don't need permission to have a go at re-writing a sticky (or writing a new one); we just won't guarantee that your thread will actually be stickied - it depends on the quality, comprehensiveness, and if we're confident the poster will keep it updated.

[Drop Your Pants]

DYP is in his own list of people you should ignore.

I'm top of my own list

The most sensible GP posters who should be Mentors are the ones who barely post but are still known. The rest of us are just windbags fighting over a very small soapbox.

[Riftend]

You don't need permission to have a go at re-writing a sticky (or writing a new one); we just won't guarantee that your thread will actually be stickied - it depends on the quality, comprehensiveness, and if we're confident the poster will keep it updated.

Good - I'll start on it in an hour or so

[Anime Daisuki]

Good GP is for me:

- Getting the stats I want on my nation.
- Developing and maintaining a secure,vibrant and fun regional community

In my experience, the first is easy. The second is very difficult, especially the "maintaining" part.

It would be nice to see GP focused more on region/community building and less on R/D, and if we saw some kind of mentor program take shape, any mentoring could be done in that department. A lot of people don't realize just how difficult it is to build a lasting community in NS, and that a lot of new regions start by picking a side in R/D right away probably slows them down a ton.

We probably don't need mentors, but maybe it would be a good idea to add a sequel of sorts to the "How to build a region" post that explores techniques that others have used with success. Plenty of people come up with great ideas, but so many of them fail due to the same pitfalls.

The concept is easy to impart, and I could write a "how to" in one paragraph. The problem with that is there is no one-sized fit all approach to region-building. What to do depends on what kind of region one wants to build. Sure, all of it starts from "recruiting". But how one writes the recruiting telegram, how fast one recruits, who one recruits (e.g. feeders or sinkers? Target recruit or catch-em-all?), how often one recruits, what nation the telegram is sent from, all of that affect the outcome. And that's just for recruiting.

[Nephmir]

Okay- I will attempt to transfer my raiding guide onto the forums, while removing the TEK bias and updating the information to reflect a more accurate GP experience. That may take awhile

[Riftend]

I suppose we all lost interest in the matter? :[

[Canton Empire]

I suppose we all lost interest in the matter? :[

Nah, I think its a great idea. As Fristbeeteria said, nothing is stopping us from becoming mentors or naming ourselves mentors. So I think that we have Nephmir be a Raiding Mentor, lets see, well, the Defender Mentor position is open, Newspaper Mentors could be Unibot, and Recruitment Mentors can be me and Riftend, because be both have loads of experiance recruiting, me over 2 years, rift. I dont know, but a lot

[The Sapientia]

I suppose we all lost interest in the matter? :[

Nah, I think its a great idea. As Fristbeeteria said, nothing is stopping us from becoming mentors or naming ourselves mentors. So I think that we have Nephmir be a Raiding Mentor, lets see, well, the Defender Mentor position is open, Newspaper Mentors could be Unibot, and Recruitment Mentors can be me and Riftend, because be both have loads of experiance recruiting, me over 2 years, rift. I dont know, but a lot

1. Nephmir is much too inexperienced to become a mentor. I'm not saying this in a condensending way, because I too, am also inexperienced.
2. We've got way more suitable fenda candidates than raiders.
3. Unibot? Really?
4. You didn't even manage to get 10 members in your region. And Rift uses shit-loads of money to recruit.

[RiderSyl]

Having official Gameplay mentors on the forums here would be mostly pointless, as any raiding or defending organization worth their salt has their own in-house mentors that teach newbies how to get involved.

[G-Tech Corporation]

Speaking simply off the cuff, I agree with my colleague, United Gordontopia; the main difficulty I see with such an idea is the lack of a universal goal to work towards, and any sort of unified standard that Mentors could help others work towards. Sure, everyone wants an active region, but that's really not a forumside activity; that's mainly to do with OSFs and regional management/the RMB, which having forumside masks for seems a bit pointless in the pursuit of. More experienced GPers certainly have wisdom to share with newcomers, but that wisdom is generally of a dual nature, and as such means any Gameplay Mentors would necessarily have issues with instructing new members in the art of R/D; as a P2TM Mentor I can talk about specific examples with newcomers or individuals who come to me for help, and even create instances and work through problems with their RPing in a give-and-take manner. R/D is far more of a "learn by doing" environment, and, as others have said, that would render Gameplay Mentors down to merely being talking guides.

[Evil Wolf]

Gameplay is a bit more than "learn by doing".

New players need guides, and while it is true that every "region worth their salt already mentors newcomers", as Sedge put it, it is extremely hard for newcomer to get into the swing of things when starting their own region. Just like Role Play, it is fairly easy to just jump into an active Gameplay region and get involved but near impossible to make your own if you have no idea what you're doing.

Newcomers to Gameplay need mentoring, especially if they want to start off on their own from the get-go. Sure, they can always join some Defender organization or Raider region first, spend months learning the ropes, the insides and outs, develop an attachment to the region and never leave it and...oh wait, that's the situation we have now. This is why new GP groups/regions are so rare, especially Defenders, who require more individual training (spotting, puppet tracking, update times) but slightly less team building than Crashers.

Current, if you want to make a new defender org and aren't already an experienced defender then forget about it, there is too much to it for you to learn on your own. However, if we had mentors that were not attached to specific groups or regions, like Role Play has, we might actually see new players starting their own groups and have a much more interesting and active Gameplay dynamic. After all, isn't that why the Role Play mentor program was started? Why should it be declared that it works for Role Play but not for Gameplay?

[Riftend]

4. You didn't even manage to get 10 members in your region. And Rift uses shit-loads of money to recruit.

That made me laugh so hard. I actually haven't used that much - In stamps just for CoF it'd be like $30 so far. Plus another $15 in two days. Well lets say $45 than in three months.

I would like to think I am a pretty god recruiter

However no - I don't think I would be a good mentor

[Burning Heads]

Current, if you want to make a new defender org and aren't already an experienced defender then forget about it, there is too much to it for you to learn on your own. However, if we had mentors that were not attached to specific groups or regions, like Role Play has, we might actually see new players starting their own groups and have a much more interesting and active Gameplay dynamic. After all, isn't that why the Role Play mentor program was started? Why should it be declared that it works for Role Play but not for Gameplay?

It doesn't help that the first thing that happens when somebody declares themselves a defender region is that they are beset by raider spies and trolls.

[Venico]

Defenders did the same thing to Raider Orgs when they were still alive.

[Ever-Wandering Souls]

Milograd infiltrated the original TEK.