Top 10 most historically significant regions/orgs? [Split]

[Unibot III]

The question is one of significance, not influence. Lets examine the impact regions/groups have had on the game rather than how many times their name gets brought up in Gameplay. I guarantee you that both the FRA and the 10000 Islands dwarfs the UDL in this respect and I think most would agree with this assertion. We may not be the loudest, but we've continuously have played a role for over a decade now. Not very many other groups can claim to have had the integrity to stand up for the same ideals for this amount of time.

No, you have been one of the loudest - Gatesville too. Being loud doesn't make you significant or influential or relevant.

[Frisbeeteria]

Given that this has created plenty of argumentative traffic, iSplit into its own thread.

[Nephmir]

Uh, no... the UIAF definitely does not go below the UDL.

[Mekhet]

Given that this has created plenty of argumentative traffic, iSplit into its own thread.

Sorry, I see the N in the topic title and my mind goes straight to neutral ground. Oops.

[Unibot III]

Uh, no... the UIAF definitely does not go below the UDL.

The order wasn't anything intentional.

[Sichuan Pepper]

No, you have been one of the loudest - Gatesville too. Being loud doesn't make you significant or influential or relevant.

What a load of crap. You TOOT your own horn and make far more noise. How dare you Unibot. I am sick and bloody tired of you turning everything into a competition rather than a cooperative environment it should be.

[Unibot III]

I am sick and bloody tired of you turning everything into a competition rather than a cooperative environment it should be.

I have no idea how you manage to type these things with a straight face - or do you just spend the entire time smirking? You've never considered cooperation a virtue.

[Sichuan Pepper]

How the hell would you know what I consider a virtue?

[Tim-Opolis]

I am sick and bloody tired of you turning everything into a competition rather than a cooperative environment it should be.

I have no idea how you manage to type these things with a straight face - or do you just spend the entire time smirking? You've never considered cooperation a virtue.

Actually, I have found TITO to be very cooperative if they're simply treated as equals on the battlefield instead of what is likely the ultra-moralistic superiority that you work from, Uni. I've enjoyed actively working with them every update, and they have been the decisive numbers that we have needed to make many of our liberations successful as of late.

[Dyr Nasad]

Cmon Uni, we can certainly say many things about each other, but this line of discussion is way off. You trumpet your achievements more than TITO ever has. Also, while we may all have had issues with cooperation in the past, TITO has been incredibly cooperative and responsive (especially from what I have seen since my return).

[Cormac A Stark]

Everyone knows that Miniluv is the most important organization in NationStates history.

Seriously, I disagree with Unibot's list too but the beauty of a thread like this is you can post your own list instead of spending pages upon pages arguing with someone else's. This is obviously a subjective thing, and Unibot is entitled to his opinion. I don't regard 10000 Islands as one of the most historically significant regions either, while also disagreeing with UDL's inclusion.

The difference is I would rather post my own list for people to lambast than lambasting Unibot's:

1. New Pacific Order
2. Alliance Defense Network
3. The Farkers
4. Atlantic Alliance
5. The DEN
6. Red Liberty Alliance
7. Gatesville
8. The Land of Kings and Emperors
9. Founderless Regions Alliance
10. The West Pacific

Edit: Just for the hell of it, if this extended to a top 15...

11. The North Pacific
12. 10000 Islands
13. Europeia
14. Equilism
15. The Rejected Realms

[Tim-Opolis]

I still think that 10000 Islands/TITO should find a spot on that list (perhaps just have a Top 15 as suggested?), but Cormac's list is certainly an improvement from Unibot's.

[Cormac A Stark]

I still think that 10000 Islands/TITO should find a spot on that list (perhaps just have a Top 15 as suggested?), but Cormac's list is certainly an improvement from Unibot's.

10000 Islands would make my Top 15, though mostly for XKI's WA voting power rather than TITO. TITO has limited its significance by refusing to adapt to changes in gameplay mechanics over the years, which has led to other defender organizations being far more prominent in the field.

[Guy]

That's true Cormac, but the topic is Top 10 of all time. Up until 2010 or so, refusing to switch was hardly of much detriment. 10KI/TITO definitely belongs in the Top 10. (Though I'm happy with your assessment, since I can take some of the credit for their WA prowess. )

What's TWP done to deserve being so high? (Genuine question.) Also, I think I'd have ADN above NPO.

I think it's really hard for someone who's only been around for about half of this game's history to come up with one of these, but I'll give it a go.

1. Alliance Defense Network
2. New Pacific Order
3. The Farkers
4. Red Liberty Alliance
5. 10000 Islands
6. Gatesville
7. The Land of Kings and Emperors
8. Founderless Regions Alliance
9. Atlantic Alliance
10. Meritocracy

Honourable mentions to DEN, TRR, Equilism, UDL, Empire.

[Mekhet]

I feel like LWU should get an honourable mention.

[Bears Armed]

No mention of ACCEL yet?

[The Sapientia]

This is a ploy to gather all the NS-geezers into one place and then eradicate them.

[Joe Bobs]

Guy's list looks the best to me so far.

Gatesville should definitely be included, when I started playing they dominated the game in many ways. I'd say 10KI should definitely be in there too, just look how many influential players have come from there / been primarily active there.

The top alliances in NS history are fairly obvious, I think an area which would be more interesting would be the Top 10 UCRs, I imagine there are more differences of opinion there.

One I'd like to offer that hasn't been mentioned, Great Britain & Ireland. They were the centre of ACCEL and involved in a number of other alliances, a lot of influential players began there. Their library remains the best I've ever seen.

[Solorni]

10KI would make my list, as would Gatesville. To me, those are no-brainers along with the ADN & NPO. After that it's very difficult. In my mind, UDL does not make the list at all. They were influential for a year before declining to something that might still be around but who knows really.

[Common-Sense Politics]

One I'd like to offer that hasn't been mentioned, Great Britain & Ireland. They were the centre of ACCEL and involved in a number of other alliances, a lot of influential players began there. Their library remains the best I've ever seen.

Very much this.

[Guy]

I feel like LWU should get an honourable mention.

I'm not sure I'd have LWU that high. They have had periods in which they were very active, coupled with long periods of stagnation - and I'm not sure how influential they have been, even during active periods. EW is a great player, but I'm not sure LWU as a whole is up there for me.

Then again, this whole thing is such inexact science.

[Cormac A Stark]

Sorry, just getting around to responding to some of this.

That's true Cormac, but the topic is Top 10 of all time. Up until 2010 or so, refusing to switch was hardly of much detriment. 10KI/TITO definitely belongs in the Top 10. (Though I'm happy with your assessment, since I can take some of the credit for their WA prowess. )

My understanding of R/D history is that TITO has largely been overshadowed in its contributions by first the ADN and the RLA, followed by the FRA. Rarely do you see TITO credited with leading some of the major defenses and liberations in earlier NationStates history; it's typically the ADN, sometimes the RLA.

This isn't to say that I think TITO is historically irrelevant; just the length of time it has endured, arguably longer than any single defender military, does make it relevant. And again, I think 10000 Islands' WA voting power makes the region historically significant as well, given that it has used this voting power to advance a defender agenda in the Security Council. I just don't think 10000 Islands has been overall significant enough to be included in a Top 10.

What's TWP done to deserve being so high? (Genuine question.) Also, I think I'd have ADN above NPO.

I credit TWP for producing some of the major players involved in GCR coups d'etat, particularly some of the key members of Empire, and the philosophy behind their reasons for perpetrating various coups. I feel it's more appropriate to credit The West Pacific as a whole for this rather than Empire or another group (such as the Crimson Order of TNP, Westwind also having roots in TWP as well as Equilism), as without some of The West Pacific's historical circumstances I'm not sure some later developments in other GCRs would even have happened.

[Darkesia]

What's TWP done to deserve being so high? (Genuine question.) Also, I think I'd have ADN above NPO.

I credit TWP for producing some of the major players involved in GCR coups d'etat, particularly some of the key members of Empire, and the philosophy behind their reasons for perpetrating various coups. I feel it's more appropriate to credit The West Pacific as a whole for this rather than Empire or another group (such as the Crimson Order of TNP, Westwind also having roots in TWP as well as Equilism), as without some of The West Pacific's historical circumstances I'm not sure some later developments in other GCRs would even have happened.

TWPs history is deeply affected by participation in the ADN and the painful~region shattering~struggle to free itself from that organisation's influence. Look back at those struggles and the personalities involved and you will see a list of "movers and shakers" for years to come.

[Ananke II]

My understanding of R/D history is that TITO has largely been overshadowed in its contributions by first the ADN and the RLA, followed by the FRA. Rarely do you see TITO credited with leading some of the major defenses and liberations in earlier NationStates history; it's typically the ADN, sometimes the RLA.

Most defenses back then (when ADN and RLA were around) were joint operations. As an invasion spotter (for ADN), who was around most updates I was always in contact with someone from TITO. We'd exchange info on what invasions we'd spotted, make sure everything was covered and ask for reinforcements from other orgs were needed (which was most updates really). The reason RLA and ADN got the attention was because we played a lot more politics, which tended to backfire on us every so often.

[Joe Bobs]

Very true Ananke.

Some others I'd like to offer (again, I'm thinking of UCRs, and more like a top 20, purely as I think it makes the discussion more interesting): Texas, Allied States of EuroIslanders, Nasicournia?