NationStates

Posted: **Wed May 07, 2014 3:45 am**

Sorry Sedge, won't happen again, and the offending URL has been removed. My apologies to UDL Chief of the Band Mahaj as Editor-in-Chief of the Messenger, I hadn't noticed the URL.

Posted: **Wed May 07, 2014 4:50 am**

Tano wrote:
I also find it hilarious that, as far as I've noticed, nobody has yet confirmed whether Cam is indeed still the UDL foreign affairs guy. Twice, that question has been asked. I would have thought answering it would be a simple y/n?

SOMEONE ANSWER THE F*CKING QUESTION

*ahem*

Please

This has gone on far too long. It's like some kind of conspiracy or something.

Posted: **Wed May 07, 2014 7:11 am**

I cannot confirm nor deny any conspiracies...

Posted: **Wed May 07, 2014 8:10 am**

SFBA Campinia wrote:I cannot confirm nor deny any conspiracies...

Says the chief of intelligence.

Posted: **Wed May 07, 2014 9:49 am**

Alyekra wrote:
SFBA Campinia wrote:I cannot confirm nor deny any conspiracies...

Says the chief of intelligence.

Well, we don't know if he's still the chief of intelligence.

Posted: **Wed May 07, 2014 10:08 am**

WAIT! Aleykra seems to know the command structure of the UDL. Come back and tell us who is Chief of Foreign Affairs! ;w;

Posted: **Wed May 07, 2014 10:38 am**

Solorni wrote:
Alyekra wrote:
Says the chief of intelligence.

Well, we don't know if he's still the chief of intelligence.

Actually, I do.

Venico wrote:WAIT! Aleykra seems to know the command structure of the UDL. Come back and tell us who is Chief of Foreign Affairs! ;w;

I would sooner die a thousand deaths!

Posted: **Wed May 07, 2014 11:56 am**

With that kind of devotion to secrecy you would wonder what you have to hide

Posted: **Wed May 07, 2014 12:58 pm**

Dremaur wrote:With that kind of devotion to secrecy you would wonder what you have to hide

Chief of Intelligence is one thing, but I draw the line at Foreign Affairs.

Posted: **Wed May 07, 2014 3:15 pm**

We have a Minister of XYZ Affairs, however.

He runs around trying to recreate the XYZ affair.

I think he's a leftover from when Unibot was in charge, to be honest.

It's weird and I wish he would stop.

Posted: **Wed May 07, 2014 4:16 pm**

Venico wrote:WAIT! Aleykra seems to know the command structure of the UDL. Come back and tell us who is Chief of Foreign Affairs! ;w;

Chief who?

Mahaj wrote:We have a Minister of XYZ Affairs, however.

He runs around trying to recreate the XYZ affair.

I think he's a leftover from when Unibot was in charge, to be honest.

It's weird and I wish he would stop.

Who's Chief of Printing these days? :lol2:

Posted: **Wed May 07, 2014 4:22 pm**

Unibot III wrote:
Venico wrote:WAIT! Aleykra seems to know the command structure of the UDL. Come back and tell us who is Chief of Foreign Affairs! ;w;

Chief who?

Doctor. It's pronounced Doctor, not bloody "Chief Who"... *sighs*

Mahaj wrote:We have a Minister of XYZ Affairs, however.

He runs around trying to recreate the XYZ affair.

I think he's a leftover from when Unibot was in charge, to be honest.

It's weird and I wish he would stop.

Who's Chief of Printing these days?

You laugh, but the only CoP is also the only elected CoB.

I mean, it's a very strong correlation. Or it would be, if I knew what correlation actually meant...

Posted: **Wed May 07, 2014 4:36 pm**

Tlik wrote:You laugh, but the only CoP is also the only elected CoB.

I mean, it's a very strong correlation. Or it would be, if I knew what correlation actually meant...

The joke of it is, I made CoP up as a position to give Mahaj a title basically.

At the time he was a very young player and I was worried he would switch sides if I didn't give him some authority and such - so I created the position and gave him the title. I don't think I ever explained what CoP was supposed to do.

Perhaps there is some causation behind the correlation: I wanted him to stick around. Mahaj always had a lot of initiative for a young officer. The fact that he became CotB would not have surprised me, even in 2011.

Posted: **Wed May 07, 2014 4:52 pm**

Mahaj wrote:We have a Minister of XYZ Affairs, however.

He runs around trying to recreate the XYZ affair.

I think he's a leftover from when Unibot was in charge, to be honest.

It's weird and I wish he would stop.

I didn't know the UDL was part of the XYZ treaty. Someone better tell Lazarus, TRR, Mordor and the RIA

Posted: **Sat Oct 18, 2014 8:04 pm**

Big Brother is watching Gameplay

Operation Brave Toaster: Exposed

Former TSP Delegate Belschaft, former TEP Delegate Todd McCloud, others exposed in plot to undermine the Coalition of The South Pacific

By Cormac Stark

FUDGETOPIA, 1 INFINITE LOOP - In a stunning development, The Miniluv Messenger has obtained IRC logs as well as screen shots from The East Pacific forum revealing a plot to subvert the democratic process of the Coalition of The South Pacific.

The plot, called "Operation Brave Toaster," was initiated by Chief Justice and former Delegate Belschaft of The South Pacific and former Delegate Todd McCloud of The East Pacific, also a citizen of The South Pacific. McCloud is also a candidate for Delegate of The East Pacific in the ongoing election period, which is still in the nominations phase. This operation was coordinated by Belschaft via IRC query and by McCloud via The East Pacific forum, apparently with the approval of Delegate Ramaeus who signed in to participate in the operation.

Operation Brave Toaster was launched to bring citizens of The East Pacific, Osiris, and Balder, and potentially elsewhere, to The South Pacific for the purpose of forming a new voting bloc. This new voting bloc was to include known players as well as undetectable, covert roleplayers with no obvious ties to their home regions. The operation was initiated following concerns by Belschaft and McCloud of alleged vote stacking by their political opponents in the most recent Cabinet election. Their concerns centered around the re-election of Sandaoguo (Glen-Rhodes) as Minister of Foreign Affairs and the election of Unibot as Chair of the Assembly.

It is unclear what the legal consequences may be for Belschaft, McCloud, and others, as the laws of The South Pacific are quite liberal in regard to citizenship and membership in the Assembly. Recall of Belschaft from his positions on the Court and the Committee for State Security is anticipated. It is also unclear what impact these revelations will have on the ongoing election for Delegate of The East Pacific. The incumbent Delegate, Ramaeus, who is seeking re-election, was involved in Operation Brave Toaster, as were electoral opponents Todd McCloud and British Grand Pacific. There is no information to suggest that the other two declared candidates thus far, Tim Stark and Dalimbar, were involved in the operation.

The Miniluv Messenger will bring you more as this story develops.

[14:59] <Bel> Around?
[15:00] <Cormac> Yep. Hey!
[15:01] <Bel> TSP's been stacked
[15:01] <Bel> I'm running the numbers in my head, and they look exactly like they would if there was a concerted stacking campaign
[15:02] <Bel> Doesn't prove it of course, and I haven't had time to run them on paper yet, but it's looking pretty certain I'd say
[15:02] <Cormac> Are there defenders from outside the region who have joined the Assembly lately?
[15:02] <Bel> A few. Also very very new people who have never posted in the Assembly but are voting for both Glen and Uni
[15:03] <Cormac> I assume security checks are being run on the new people.
[15:04] <Bel> No idea. Hile purged the admin team so new forums, remember?
[15:04] <Bel> I managed to get Tsu as root, but the other two admins are Kris and Glen
[15:04] <Bel> Getting Tsu as root was the best I could do at the time <_<
[15:05] <Cormac> The reason I ask is it's possible there's stacking happening, but equally possible Glen and Unibot are just persuading natives of their views.
[15:09] <Cormac> Not that I'm dismissing it, by any means, but there needs to be actual evidence.
[15:12] <Cormac> Looking at the election results myself, I see almost identical voting for Unibot as for Glen-Rhodes, and for God-Emperor as for you. With a blend of people who would be classified as "natives" and people who would (fairly or unfairly) be classified as "external influence" voting for both sides.
[15:16] <Bel> Possible, but improbable. Including them defender imports make up a third of their vote, and another third is people who have never posted in the Assembly and who do not seem to have WA's. Of the whole group, two thirds of them have joined since Glen and Uni showed up.
[15:17] <Bel> Of the whole group just one of their votes was in TSP before the Milograd coup.
[15:19] <Cormac> "Before the Milograd coup" is now over a year ago, so that isn't that surprising. And how long has Glen been here now?
[15:19] <Bel> Later 2013
[15:19] <Bel> *late 2013
[15:20] <Cormac> I'm not saying it isn't happening, I'm just not sure what can be done about it. TSP's laws are rather lax in this regard - WA isn't needed, minimum activity requirements aren't mandated - so unless it can be proven these people are from elsewhere they aren't doing anything illegal.
[15:20] <Bel> I'm more interested in the four nations without WA's who have never posted in the Assembly
[15:20] <Bel> Oh, stacking is legal so long as citizenship applications are accurate
[15:21] <Bel> And it's too late to deal with this *now*
[15:21] * Cormac nods
[15:21] <Bel> The question is what happens in the next four months?
[15:21] <Bel> bbl, dinner
[15:21] <Cormac> Okay
[15:35] <Bel> bck
[15:41] <Cormac> WB. Sorry, was afk too.
[15:42] <Bel> Proving stacking is dificult, but I'm fairly sure it's going on
[15:42] <Bel> Unless you think that Unibot could get elected to Cabinet in TSP without it?
[15:42] <Bel> This is fucking Unibot we're talking about
[15:43] <Cormac> Well, he's currently a vote behind God-Emperor. But with newer natives who don't know him, I think it's possible.
[15:44] <Bel> I'm fundementally doubtfull of "newer natives" who don't have WA's
[15:45] <Bel> That's the thing that's making me really suspicous
[15:48] * Cormac nods
[15:50] <Bel> Extend that to; "Newer natives who don't have WA's and don't post in the goverment areas"
[15:51] <Cormac> Yeah, that is odd. But not impossible if they TG campaigned.
[15:52] <Bel> Possible, yes.
[15:52] <Cormac> Regardless, what are you thinking about doing about it?
[15:52] <Bel> I've been talking to Todd. The general idea is to slowly move reliable people into the region over the next few months
[15:52] <Bel> We wouldn't need many, just 2-3 trustworthy and reliable people from TEP, Balder, Osi
[15:53] <Bel> Counter stack essentially
[15:53] <Cormac> Aye, he talked to me about it last night actually. I wasn't sure if he had spoken to you or not, as he didn't mention you.
[15:53] <Bel> Duh
[15:53] <Bel> Isolation of events
[15:53] <Bel> Worse case scienario, someone leaks logs
[15:53] * Cormac nods
[15:53] <Bel> Better not too have everything in the same set
[15:54] <Cormac> Yeah, makes sense.
[15:54] <Bel> I never use forums or IRC chat rooms for stuff like this, 1-1 convos
[15:54] <Bel> The alternative is TSP joing the FRA in a few months time
[15:54] <Cormac> He is planning to have a forum to coordinate this, from what he told me last night.
[15:54] <Bel> Uni and Glen are going to win the elections
[15:54] <Bel> Bad idea as far as I'm concerned
[15:55] <Bel> Forums can be screenshotted, gives a list of everyone involved
[15:55] <Bel> I prefer decentralisation
[15:55] * Cormac nods
[15:55] <Bel> If we need to organise, we can do so openly on TSP's forums
[15:55] <Bel> BRB
[15:55] <Cormac> Okay.
[16:00] <Bel> How many people could you trust with this?
[16:00] <Bel> I assume Ven and Koth as obvs.
[16:02] <Cormac> Aye, assuming they're available. Ven has gotten busy in RL lately.
[16:03] <Bel> Who isn't?
[16:03] <Bel> I really don't have time for NS these days, but like I'm going to leave TSP to Unibot
[16:05] * Cormac nods

[15:04] <Bel> Hey <_<
[15:04] <Cormac> o/
[15:05] <Bel> I cannot believe how shortsighted TNI are being
[15:07] <Cormac> Me neither. I'm not very pleased with their response.
[15:09] <Bel> Ugh
[15:09] <Bel> How many guys can you get me?
[15:10] <Cormac> Well, I haven't seen Venico and Koth since we discussed this. They're essentially the only two people I think would want to be involved and I could trust not to leak it.
[15:12] * Bel nods
[15:12] <Bel> Can I get you in soon?
[15:12] <Cormac> Spaking of shortsighted and inappropriate: viewtopic.php?p=21047369#p21047369
[15:13] <Bel> I have some legal questions I need submitting
[15:13] <Cormac> Aye, I'll move a nation in and re-apply soon.
[15:14] <Bel> Good
[15:14] <Bel> I can probably strike down the TRR on legal grounds as soon as we have the people in to prevent it coming back
-
[15:18] <Cormac> Sorry, my cat managed to find a magical key that literally shut down my computer. I think he was sending me a message.
[15:18] <Bel> Heh
[15:18] <Cormac> Anyway, are you sure you want the TRR treaty stricken? The problem now is that if it goes away, that doesn't mean the TNI treaty is coming back anytime soon. Even if they would agree to re-ratifying it, the Assembly is going to be too irritated to re-ratify it, imo.
[15:19] <Bel> Not yet. In a months time when we have the people in place.
[15:19] * Cormac nods
[15:19] <Bel> Anyway, I've messaged Cerebella asking him to hold of revoking the treaty
[15:20] <Cormac> This should look fairly normal for me, I've been a citizen of TSP before. I'd definitely prefer my involvement not to be mentioned to other participants. I'm okay with not knowing who they are either.
[15:29] <Bel> I'm going to be doing 1-1's with people I trust
[15:29] <Bel> That way if shit leaks I take the can
[15:29] <Bel> The other people in TSP will be insulated
[15:31] * Cormac nods

Posted: **Sat Oct 18, 2014 8:15 pm**

As I said before over IRC; this behavior was disgusting and the individuals involved abused every ounce of trust and respect afforded to them from The South Pacific. The South Pacific's cabinet is in deep discussion right now (as you would all imagine) over what needs to be done and how we need to respond. Meanwhile, I expect TEP voters are probably doing the same.

Posted: **Sat Oct 18, 2014 8:36 pm**

Must've been a well-oriented plan if all posts were from one day. Almost like this plan had ulterior motives... big bait catches big rat.

Posted: **Sat Oct 18, 2014 8:46 pm**

Todd McCloud wrote:Must've been a well-oriented plan if all posts were from one day. Almost like this plan had ulterior motives... big bait catches big rat.

Ah, so what you're saying is that you never planned to subvert TSP at all -- you were just trying to lure the then-Pharaoh of Osiris, a treaty ally of TEP, into an entrapment plot? Trying to put me in a difficult position, hoping I would violate the TEP-Osiris treaty? For what purpose? Or is that not what you're saying?

Crap, Todd. Utter crap. But if this is really what happened, I'm sure you have logs discussing the plan to bait me into a trap with someone. Belschaft, for example. You would have to have coordinated the plan with him. Or the other people you involved. I would love to see those logs as evidence that there really was no plan to subvert TSP and this was all about entrapping me, without delay, before you have time to fake them.

Don't try to outplay someone trained by Empire, Todd. Just admit what you did and take the consequences, whatever they may be.

Posted: **Sat Oct 18, 2014 8:48 pm**

This is a major act of desperation on Todd's part -- if it had been bait, he would have informed TSP's government beforehand privately.

Posted: **Sat Oct 18, 2014 8:51 pm**

The Miniluv Messenger wrote:There is no information to suggest that the other two declared candidates thus far, Tim Stark and Dalimbar, were involved in the operation.

Yeah, while this screams like something I'd be up to (frankly, there'd be no way in hell I'd allow you of all people to have logs of this, Cormac

), I can confirm it was only through Cormac's posts that I was made aware of this weirdness.

I strongly suggest that other parties besides Cormac confirm or deny the allegations made here.

Posted: **Sat Oct 18, 2014 9:10 pm**

lol you feeder regions and your crazy plots.

Posted: **Sat Oct 18, 2014 9:20 pm**

Well, I should own it. And I will. This did not involve EPSA or any other faction in TEP for that matter. This was more or less after a night of frustration on my part after some citizenship discussion, some time in July. I was upset and decided to vent this frustration in the form of a plan. At the time, I was gung-ho. I hadn't done this in a while, so I was probably over my head, but still, I unfortunately decided to use this outlet. Members of TEP were told, they didn't have a part in this - so Ram, BGP, the others were not responsible for this. This was all my doing.

I did happen to tell Bel. He was also frustrated too, I assume, and decided to tell a few people. I told Cormac, and I suppose Bel did as well. For a few days I was thinking about it, hence the posts that followed. But, after about a week, I didn't really think this was a good idea. Things calmed down, I calmed down, and slowly I was being okay with things in TSP. It's kind of like that thing a few of us discussed a while ago about how there are around 4 generations or so in TSP, and each one, once established, becomes more or less convinced that their way was the best way, and more resistant to change. I'm not saying that's how it should be, I'm saying that's my thoughts. These feelings date back to two years ago. Ultimately that too was my fault - I didn't want to admit that my activity in that region had been slipping, and didn't come to grips with it. Consequently, what followed there was a bit of me trying to prove to myself that it wasn't the case. And it's kind of been that way for a year now, honestly. TSP was my first feeder home - TEP's always going to feel like "home", but they were the first to give me a chance, so it's kind of like a first home home. Anyway, after about 2 weeks it was kind of an afterthought. After about a month, I honestly didn't check on it. Hence why no movement was done on this. I had to jog my memory on this and re-read those posts. I could only read a few, right now. I don't like what was said. That's not an excuse, though.

It is to this end that I must apologize for this, specifically to TSP, but also to TEP. First, TSP. I am sorry for involving you guys in a plan. It is unlike me to do this, well, based on track record, and I have to apologize for acting this way and being frustrated for a long time, which is my problem and not yours. I acted poorly, and frankly if the tables were turned you know I'd be upset. Specifically, I must apologize to Unibot and Glenn-Rhodes. At the time you guys were the source of my frustration and, rather than speak to you individually like a sensible individual, I chose the easy route and decided to deflect and stew. I'm sorry for that, because I don't want to have to signal someone out in this game. No one in this game really deserves that. That's not really a definition of "fun". I also apologize to TEP for roping some of you all in this. This was short-sighted and frankly inexcusable, because in this whole game of thousands of people, you guys are the ones I care about the most. I should've never done that or jeopardized your trust. Unfortunately, I did just that.

As for what happens after this, well, I don't know. I feel awful after reflecting about it. At first I just wanted to not say anything, but I had to especially with speculation going around. This is my junk - no one else's: not TEP, not Bel, not Cormac. It's mine. And the fact that I was caught and didn't explain it prior to this doesn't make things better either. So, after this post, I shall resign my citizenship from TSP. It is clear that I could use some time away from the region, and I don't want to give it any negativity. In addition, I am removing my candidacy for TEP's delegacy. TEP is innocent in this and doesn't deserve to have a distraction for four months. So be it. I only hope to ask for forgiveness for those who have been wronged in this. If anyone wishes for an individual apology or what not, I'll be on skype and IRC when needed.

Posted: **Sat Oct 18, 2014 9:26 pm**

I find this news hilarious as I just moved from Osiris to the South Pacific.

Posted: **Sat Oct 18, 2014 9:30 pm**

Todd McCloud wrote:Well, I should own it. And I will. This did not involve EPSA or any other faction in TEP for that matter. This was more or less after a night of frustration on my part after some citizenship discussion, some time in July. I was upset and decided to vent this frustration in the form of a plan. At the time, I was gung-ho. I hadn't done this in a while, so I was probably over my head, but still, I unfortunately decided to use this outlet. Members of TEP were told, they didn't have a part in this - so Ram, BGP, the others were not responsible for this. This was all my doing.

I did happen to tell Bel. He was also frustrated too, I assume, and decided to tell a few people. I told Cormac, and I suppose Bel did as well. For a few days I was thinking about it, hence the posts that followed. But, after about a week, I didn't really think this was a good idea. Things calmed down, I calmed down, and slowly I was being okay with things in TSP. It's kind of like that thing a few of us discussed a while ago about how there are around 4 generations or so in TSP, and each one, once established, becomes more or less convinced that their way was the best way, and more resistant to change. I'm not saying that's how it should be, I'm saying that's my thoughts. These feelings date back to two years ago. Ultimately that too was my fault - I didn't want to admit that my activity in that region had been slipping, and didn't come to grips with it. Consequently, what followed there was a bit of me trying to prove to myself that it wasn't the case. And it's kind of been that way for a year now, honestly. TSP was my first feeder home - TEP's always going to feel like "home", but they were the first to give me a chance, so it's kind of like a first home home. Anyway, after about 2 weeks it was kind of an afterthought. After about a month, I honestly didn't check on it. Hence why no movement was done on this. I had to jog my memory on this and re-read those posts. I could only read a few, right now. I don't like what was said. That's not an excuse, though.

It is to this end that I must apologize for this, specifically to TSP, but also to TEP. First, TSP. I am sorry for involving you guys in a plan. It is unlike me to do this, well, based on track record, and I have to apologize for acting this way and being frustrated for a long time, which is my problem and not yours. I acted poorly, and frankly if the tables were turned you know I'd be upset. Specifically, I must apologize to Unibot and Glenn-Rhodes. At the time you guys were the source of my frustration and, rather than speak to you individually like a sensible individual, I chose the easy route and decided to deflect and stew. I'm sorry for that, because I don't want to have to signal someone out in this game. No one in this game really deserves that. That's not really a definition of "fun". I also apologize to TEP for roping some of you all in this. This was short-sighted and frankly inexcusable, because in this whole game of thousands of people, you guys are the ones I care about the most. I should've never done that or jeopardized your trust. Unfortunately, I did just that.

As for what happens after this, well, I don't know. I feel awful after reflecting about it. At first I just wanted to not say anything, but I had to especially with speculation going around. This is my junk - no one else's: not TEP, not Bel, not Cormac. It's mine. And the fact that I was caught and didn't explain it prior to this doesn't make things better either. So, after this post, I shall resign my citizenship from TSP. It is clear that I could use some time away from the region, and I don't want to give it any negativity. In addition, I am removing my candidacy for TEP's delegacy. TEP is innocent in this and doesn't deserve to have a distraction for four months. So be it. I only hope to ask for forgiveness for those who have been wronged in this. If anyone wishes for an individual apology or what not, I'll be on skype and IRC when needed.

"TEP is innocent in this".

You're not the only one who was involved in this - British Grand Pacific, God-Emperor, Southern Yugoslavia, Tano, even Ramaeus. None of them reported to TSP that there was an organized attempt ongoing to manipulate TSP's elections. It's good that you've apologized, Todd, but that doesn't undo what's been done and it doesn't suddenly make those individuals innocent of wrongdoing here either.

If the roles had been replaced, TEP would have expected TSPers (who knew about it and were involved) to come forward to rat on Operation Brave Toaster before November. We found out via a third-party (Cormac) only weeks before our next Delegate Elections and up until an hour again you were prepared to lie and tell us it was "molebait". This is totally unacceptable.

Posted: **Sat Oct 18, 2014 10:05 pm**

How were these obtained?

NationStates

The Miniluv Messenger: Big Brother is Watching Gameplay