INS Reports: Trouble in TS-Paradise for new delegate Escade

[Hileville]

People expected a defender like Glen to be loyal?

Kind of like expecting Hile to act in TSPs interest after swearing allegiance to BoM.

I, Hileville, swear that I have, to the best of my knowledge, been completely truthful in applying for citizenship in the Osiris Fraternal Order and that I have no other NationStates identity that has not been made known to the Pharaoh. I swear my allegiance to the Osiris Fraternal Order, its Pharaoh, and its citizens, and I swear not to engage in hostilities against the Osiris Fraternal Order or to violate its laws and rules. I swear my allegiance to The Brotherhood of Malice which has freed Osiris from defender tyranny and shown us the path to true independence.

Fairly obvious why he's the one who drafted the recall.

If you are honestly questioning my loyalty to TSP you really haven't a clue about who I am.

[Trolloputsk]

Is it not somewhat of a double standard to berate another member of the Cabinet for coming down on one side while the same can be said of you?

[Hileville]

Is it not somewhat of a double standard to berate another member of the Cabinet for coming down on one side while the same can be said of you?

I have explained my reasoning behind the recall. You are not privy of the discussions that took place in Cabinet and where I stood on the matter. TSP is neutral on the Osiris situation. I did not advocate for us to recognize Venico's government nor will I.

[Mad Jack]

That's not abbey >_>

[Hileville]

That's not abbey >_>

I knew that.

[Trolloputsk]

I had hoped the 'putsk' would be enough of a giveaway.

[McMasterdonia]

How scandalous!

I would be very annoyed if a member of the North Pacific's cabinet produced a statement that was contrary to a statement that has been approved by cabinet vote. If you agree that the vote of cabinet is important on such matters then you should be able to support such statements in public, or at least not openly oppose them. Cabinet solidarity is important, imo.

[Bachtendekuppen]

How scandalous!

I would be very annoyed if a member of the North Pacific's cabinet produced a statement that was contrary to a statement that has been approved by cabinet vote. If you agree that the vote of cabinet is important on such matters then you should be able to support such statements in public, or at least not openly oppose them. Cabinet solidarity is important, imo.

This.

Being Delegate myself now, I wouldn't appreciate such actions either. It's a simple matter of respect towards the Delegate and the rest of the cabinet.

[Unibot III]

In The East Pacific (and The North Pacific now yes?), Cabinet members are not elected individually to their positions. They don't have mandates of their own and responsibilities specifically to the region above the Cabinet like in The South Pacific.

The highest authority in The South Pacific is The Assembly - not the Cabinet and not the Delegate. Glen-Rhodes was elected by The Assembly and he can always seek their opinion on matters. Tough luck to the Cabinet if they think that's "rude".The Chairman serves the region first and foremost, not the Cabinet -- when those two conflict in his mind, it is perfectly honorable to approach The Assembly for a second opinion.

How scandalous!

I would be very annoyed if a member of the North Pacific's cabinet produced a statement that was contrary to a statement that has been approved by cabinet vote. If you agree that the vote of cabinet is important on such matters then you should be able to support such statements in public, or at least not openly oppose them. Cabinet solidarity is important, imo.

Furthermore, I'm recalling a situation where a supermajority of Eluvatar's Cabinet wanted to pursue a motion to identify the region as a Defender Region and you went public about it to address to The Assembly. Even though this technically violated privacy policies and such (very messy) within the Cabinet.

You felt The Assembly was being left out of an important dialogue in Cabinet -- Glen-Rhodes felt the same about this issue.

[Cerian Quilor]

I wouldn't have my personal beliefs if I didn't think they were best for the region. That's not something you put aside. Not ever. Not for you, not for your friends, not even for me. The TSP-TNI treaty has not been good for TSP, I'm glad that I opposed it then and I don't trust you to do what is right for TSP.

How so? Prove it.

Ahem.

[The North Polish Union]

In The East Pacific (and The North Pacific now yes?), Cabinet members are not elected individually to their positions. They don't have mandates of their own and responsibilities specifically to the region above the Cabinet like in The South Pacific.

The highest authority in The South Pacific is The Assembly - not the Cabinet and not the Delegate. Glen-Rhodes was elected by The Assembly and he can always seek their opinion on matters. Tough luck to the Cabinet if they think that's "rude".The Chairman serves the region first and foremost, not the Cabinet -- when those two conflict in his mind, it is perfectly honorable to approach The Assembly for a second opinion.

Therefore, if the Assembly votes to recall Glen, you should have no issues with it. I'll remember this so that if they do and then you pitch a hissy fit I can bring it up.

[Unibot III]

In The East Pacific (and The North Pacific now yes?), Cabinet members are not elected individually to their positions. They don't have mandates of their own and responsibilities specifically to the region above the Cabinet like in The South Pacific.

The highest authority in The South Pacific is The Assembly - not the Cabinet and not the Delegate. Glen-Rhodes was elected by The Assembly and he can always seek their opinion on matters. Tough luck to the Cabinet if they think that's "rude".The Chairman serves the region first and foremost, not the Cabinet -- when those two conflict in his mind, it is perfectly honorable to approach The Assembly for a second opinion.

Therefore, if the Assembly votes to recall Glen, you should have no issues with it. I'll remember this so that if they do and then you pitch a hissy fit I can bring it up.

People have the authority to do many things they should not do?

[Cerian Quilor]

How so? Prove it.

Ahem.

Are you deliberately ignoring me Unibot? Is this your latest tactic to bother me?

Because if it is, its totally working

[The North Polish Union]

Therefore, if the Assembly votes to recall Glen, you should have no issues with it. I'll remember this so that if they do and then you pitch a hissy fit I can bring it up.

People have the authority to do many things they should not do?

Seriously. You just said that the Assembly should be asked for a second opinion. Now you say that if the Assembly recalls Glen it's "a bad thing they shouldn't do." I applaud your double-standards.

[Anumia]

People have the authority to do many things they should not do?

Seriously. You just said that the Assembly should be asked for a second opinion. Now you say that if the Assembly recalls Glen it's "a bad thing they shouldn't do." I applaud your double-standards.

The Assembly must do as Unibot bids.

[Solorni]

I like how Unibot pretends to know best for TSP and better than TSP itself. It's know wonder these guys are always getting in trouble, they have no ethical compass.

[Charax]

Escade? New TSP Delegate? Wha-?

How often does TSP have elections? Or has time just been passing unusually fast for me in the past few months?

[Kringalia]

Escade? New TSP Delegate? Wha-?

How often does TSP have elections? Or has time just been passing unusually fast for me in the past few months?

We have elections every four months. We had one in December, the previous one was in August. Before that we had special elections in June, and before that the one in April. We've had some special elections for specific positions along the way though (Minister of the Army lately).

Escade was elected as Delegate in a landslide, and doing a great job so fat I might add.

[Glen-Rhodes]

I like how Unibot pretends to know best for TSP and better than TSP itself. It's know wonder these guys are always getting in trouble, they have no ethical compass.

People need to stop this kind of toxic thinking. Just because people agree on one thing does not mean people who believe the opposite don't have TSP's interests in mind. This idea that only the majority opinion is truly in TSP's interests is what's been causing so much trouble in the region.

[Anumia]

I like how Unibot pretends to know best for TSP and better than TSP itself. It's know wonder these guys are always getting in trouble, they have no ethical compass.

People need to stop this kind of toxic thinking. Just because people agree on one thing does not mean people who believe the opposite don't have TSP's interests in mind. This idea that only the majority opinion is truly in TSP's interests is what's been causing so much trouble in the region.

I think even the briefest cursory reading of some threads would identify you as being a major factor in "what's been causing so much trouble in [TSP]." The minority opinion not getting its way is not indicative of a problem with democracy since that's pretty much how democracy works.

[Glen-Rhodes]

I think even the briefest cursory reading of some threads would identify you as being a major factor in "what's been causing so much trouble in [TSP]." The minority opinion not getting its way is not indicative of a problem with democracy since that's pretty much how democracy works.

Of course democracy is based on majority rule. However, believing that the minority, simply because they are in the minority, do not have the interests of the region in mind is toxic. It leads to the marginalization, even demonization, of the minority. It leads, quite literally, to the tyranny of the majority. Democracy is founded upon the principle that governance is best done through a debate about what is best for a group, and that means everybody is advocating for the position they believe is within the interests of the group. Democracy is not about the majority ganging up and persecuting the minority, which happens all too often in supposedly democratic regional governments.

[Charax]

Escade? New TSP Delegate? Wha-?

How often does TSP have elections? Or has time just been passing unusually fast for me in the past few months?

We have elections every four months. We had one in December, the previous one was in August. Before that we had special elections in June, and before that the one in April. We've had some special elections for specific positions along the way though (Minister of the Army lately).

Escade was elected as Delegate in a landslide, and doing a great job so fat I might add.

I wish my life would stop whizzing past me. Seems like only a couple of weeks ago Bel was elected.

[Kringalia]

We have elections every four months. We had one in December, the previous one was in August. Before that we had special elections in June, and before that the one in April. We've had some special elections for specific positions along the way though (Minister of the Army lately).

Escade was elected as Delegate in a landslide, and doing a great job so fat I might add.

I wish my life would stop whizzing past me. Seems like only a couple of weeks ago Bel was elected.

Tell me about it. I'm still getting used to us having a new Cabinet. It's exciting though!

[Anumia]

I think even the briefest cursory reading of some threads would identify you as being a major factor in "what's been causing so much trouble in [TSP]." The minority opinion not getting its way is not indicative of a problem with democracy since that's pretty much how democracy works.

Of course democracy is based on majority rule. However, believing that the minority, simply because they are in the minority, do not have the interests of the region in mind is toxic. It leads to the marginalization, even demonization, of the minority. It leads, quite literally, to the tyranny of the majority. Democracy is founded upon the principle that governance is best done through a debate about what is best for a group, and that means everybody is advocating for the position they believe is within the interests of the group. Democracy is not about the majority ganging up and persecuting the minority, which happens all too often in supposedly democratic regional governments.

I'd like to apologise in part: I thought your post was actually by Unibot.

[Eluvatar]

How scandalous!

I would be very annoyed if a member of the North Pacific's cabinet produced a statement that was contrary to a statement that has been approved by cabinet vote. If you agree that the vote of cabinet is important on such matters then you should be able to support such statements in public, or at least not openly oppose them. Cabinet solidarity is important, imo.

Furthermore, I'm recalling a situation where a supermajority of Eluvatar's Cabinet wanted to pursue a motion to identify the region as a Defender Region and you went public about it to address to The Assembly. Even though this technically violated privacy policies and such (very messy) within the Cabinet.

You felt The Assembly was being left out of an important dialogue in Cabinet -- Glen-Rhodes felt the same about this issue.

What?

That's not exactly what happened, but as the relevant discussions on The North Pacific's forum are all non-public, I cannot cite them.

I will however cite the ultimate law passed.