Osiris Fraternal Order

[Unibot III]

I don't see how the RegSov Conference is even about the war, we're more talking about the issues with sovereignty that surround the war. Critics are making a big deal out of it for the purposes of making a big deal.

[Solorni]

But let's be honest, you're also the person who didn't see how Blackbird actively condoned forum destruction during his RLA days. Not exactly the person to be "seeing" things.

[Cormac A Stark]

I'm perplexed that any of the regions in question feel that the Osiris Fraternal Order is trying to force or coerce them into doing or not doing anything.

What we have said, quite clearly, is that we will not maintain relations with regions that are communicating with our enemy in regard to the war behind closed doors. It should also be noted that none of the regions in question have made any attempt to communicate with us in regard to the war. Indeed, with the exception of The West Pacific, any communication at all from most of these regions even prior to the war has been sporadic at best. We received no diplomatic communication at all from the New Pacific Order or The Rejected Realms in their embassies in Osiris from the time they were established until the time they were closed.

I should add that we did receive communication from Ainur, in which their Steward demanded a treaty in order to withdraw from the conference, then promised that Ainur would not attend the conference when I declined a treaty, and then blindsided Osiris with not only a renewed insistence on attending the conference but a statement against us. That is not friendship, we will not pretend that friendship exists between our regions, and such duplicitous and disrespectful behavior is characteristic of "relations" between Osiris and all of these regions, including The West Pacific since Darkesia has become Delegate.

We are simply recognizing that relations between our regions do not, in fact, exist. The presence of unused embassies does not signify actual relations, and we have closed those embassies to eliminate the pretense of friendship with regions that are, frankly, not friends of Osiris, and never have been, again with the regrettable exception of The West Pacific which has remarkably changed in the short time Darkesia has been Delegate. I suppose this is what occurs when a region is governed by an autocracy with no institutions to guarantee continuity from one regime to the next.

In any event, Osiris has not made any threats against these regions. We have notified these regions that relations would be terminated. That is not a threat, as it doesn't bear any negative consequences, particularly when one considers that most of these regions were not communicating with us in the first place. We do not consider ourselves hostile to these regions, we certainly have no plans for aggression against these regions -- we have simply terminated relations with these regions, in acknowledgment that no meaningful relations ever existed. Sovereign decisions in regard to our own embassies are not demonstrations of force or coercion.

At all times, every region involved has maintained the freedom to attend this conference without threat of hostility or aggression from Osiris, and indeed they are attending without threat of hostility or aggression from Osiris -- but also without relations with Osiris. We wish them well and we consider this matter resolved by the termination of relations with the six regions in question.

[Guy]

Cormac, and the Osiris Fraternal Order, were provided with numerous and consistent assurances by us that we do not regard ourselves as hostile at all towards Osiris, and are committed to upholding our treaty with them. We have also stated from the beginning that we do not support Osiris' decision to declare war on Laz.

The decision to attend a treaty hosted by our close friends in Lazarus, titled the Regional Sovereignty Conference -- one of the values that we hold dearly -- does not change either of those stances. If the war is discussed in it, our response will be shaped by those two positions that we hold.

It's clear that the issue here is that Cormac simply does not believe our prior assurances, in light of our attendance. His response was to close our embassy, and also stated his intention to move towards repealing our Non-Aggression Pact.

The NAP was enacted in the hopes of beginning a new age of TRR-Osi relationship, one that is based on recognition of our differences, and respecting one another regardless of them. Cormac's move, beyond being a blatant violation of those principles, is also quite an aggressive move towards TRR. We would like Osiris to please explain their intentions towards TRR, given the impending termination of the NAP by them.

Guy

Office of Foreign Affairs, The Rejected Realms

[Cormac A Stark]

<snip>

We have stated that participation in closed door discussions with our enemy and multiple other regions in regard to the war, in an effort to assist our enemy in diplomatically damaging Osiris, is an indication that a region is not actually interested in relations with Osiris. Delegate Unibot's various comments in this forum and elsewhere have also clearly conveyed that message.

But for the sake of clarification, we didn't and don't consider attendance of the conference an act of aggression. We are terminating relations because it's clear The Rejected Realms isn't actually interested in relations with Osiris, not because you have been aggressive toward Osiris. This is not an act of hostility or aggression on our part either, just an acknowledgment of simple reality. We wish The Rejected Realms well.

In regard to the non-aggression pact, it will be terminated, if the Deshret consents, in order to fully terminate relations with The Rejected Realms. Termination of the non-aggression pact should not be interpreted as an indication that the Osiris Fraternal Order intends aggression toward The Rejected Realms, as we did not intend such aggression prior to ratification of the pact, nor do we intend it now. We do not have non-aggression agreements with four of the five Feeders either, but I can assure you that we nonetheless have no plans for aggression against them, and this is also true of The Rejected Realms.

[Intelligent Holograms]

TWP has not changed at all in the time that Dark has been Delegate.

TWP's FA policy has always been to look out for our own interests even before Dark's time as Delegate (as confirmed by Westwind's statement on these forums), in this instance our FA policy means attending a conference of regional sovereignty. TWP has always been a staunch advocate of regional sovereignty, always recognising the right of the inhabitants of a region the right to choose their own destiny. At present moment, Osiris has chosen a path completely at odds with the West Pacifican ideology of accepting that regions should decide their own destiny, so it is no great surprise to anyone that our two regions have ceased communication.

You are well within your rights to close TWP's embassy, you do not, however, maintain the right to slander and accuse our Delegate of changing TWP, nor do you maintain the right to lay the blame for this mess at our feet.

[Pierconium]

<snip>

We have stated that participation in closed door discussions with our enemy and multiple other regions in regard to the war, in an effort to assist our enemy in diplomatically damaging Osiris, is an indication that a region is not actually interested in relations with Osiris. Delegate Unibot's various comments in this forum and elsewhere have also clearly conveyed that message.

But for the sake of clarification, we didn't and don't consider attendance of the conference an act of aggression. We are terminating relations because it's clear The Rejected Realms isn't actually interested in relations with Osiris, not because you have been aggressive toward Osiris. This is not an act of hostility or aggression on our part either, just an acknowledgment of simple reality. We wish The Rejected Realms well.

In regard to the non-aggression pact, it will be terminated, if the Deshret consents, in order to fully terminate relations with The Rejected Realms. Termination of the non-aggression pact should not be interpreted as an indication that the Osiris Fraternal Order intends aggression toward The Rejected Realms, as we did not intend such aggression prior to ratification of the pact, nor do we intend it now. We do not have non-aggression agreements with four of the five Feeders either, but I can assure you that we nonetheless have no plans for aggression against them, and this is also true of The Rejected Realms.

This comment makes several sweeping assumptions that have already been discussed extensively within this topic. The structure of the conference, the topics at hand and the ongoing discussion are predominantly from an objective, pedagogical point of view. It is a discussion of the what, how and why? No one, even those that express opposition to Osiris, has stated at any point that they wish it to become anything other than an academic conversation on the implications of the actions that have thus far taken place. No one is organizing anti-Osiris rallies or attempting to convince those that oppose the war to join a specific side.

Your entire point seems to be that since you have declared war on Lazarus that the sovereignty of other regions must therefore be compromised according to your decree. Post hoc, ergo propter hoc.

[Unibot III]

We were assured by Osiris that it understood and respected that we would attend the Regional Sovereignty Conference and we would defend our long-time ally, Lazarus from hostile action, due to our legal obligations to do as such. We hope that Osiris will keep good on its word.

At no point has the Regional Sovereignty Conference discussed (1) war plans, or (2) assisting "the enemy" in diplomatically damaging Osiris. We're discussing the future of diplomacy, peace and principles of sovereignty and global security. I've been pleasantly surprised at the open, and thoughtful discussion we've had so far and we have no plans to cancel TRR's attendance because of a threat from anyone.

Yours,
Unibot.
Delegate of The Rejected Realms.

[Cormac A Stark]

We were assured by Osiris that it understood and respected that we would attend the Regional Sovereignty Conference

No, you most certainly were not. We did not discuss the Regional Sovereignty Conference at any point during our discussion of Osiris' war declaration, nor did I discuss that with Minister Guy when he approached me to argue the merits of the war declaration. Regardless, both of those discussions were before the conference agenda evolved to include discussion of the war, or at least before Osiris became aware of it.

---

Speaking more generally, I don't know why we're seeing continued argumentation from the regions with which Osiris has severed relations. We have made our position clear. There will be no reversal of our position. This does not indicate ill will on the part of Osiris toward the regions in question, it only indicates that we do not believe there is any benefit to continuing the pretense of friendship. There is nothing hostile about deciding to go our separate ways.

If these several regions feel that we have overreacted or that our reasoning for termination of relations is flawed, that is their prerogative. I'm not going to spend several pages arguing about it. It is their prerogative to disagree, and it is our prerogative to make sovereign decisions in regard to maintenance or discontinuation of relations with other regions. We have made the decisions we have already articulated, we stand by those decisions, and now we are moving on.

[Frattastan II]

it is our prerogative to make sovereign decisions in regard to maintenance or discontinuation of relations with other regions

This must be the NS equivalent of the "right to my opinion".

[Unibot III]

We were assured by Osiris that it understood and respected that we would attend the Regional Sovereignty Conference

No, you most certainly were not. We did not discuss the Regional Sovereignty Conference at any point during our discussion of Osiris' war declaration,

Let me remind you, Pharaoh ...

<Unibot> Since Lazarus is a long time ally, longer than me being in TRR, I would count on us attending, however.
* Cormac nods
<Cormac> Your attendance is understandable, if you choose to attend. I just don't see any need for hostility directed toward Osiris.

[Pierconium]

No, you most certainly were not. We did not discuss the Regional Sovereignty Conference at any point during our discussion of Osiris' war declaration,

Let me remind you, Pharaoh ...

<Unibot> Since Lazarus is a long time ally, longer than me being in TRR, I would count on us attending, however.
* Cormac nods
<Cormac> Your attendance is understandable, if you choose to attend. I just don't see any need for hostility directed toward Osiris.

Pesky things, chat logs.

[Cormac A Stark]

All right, I stand corrected. I didn't remember discussing the conference during that conversation.

Regardless, that conversation took place before the conference agenda was modified to include specific discussion of the war, or at least before Osiris became aware of that modification.

[Pierconium]

All right, I stand corrected. I didn't remember discussing the conference during that conversation.

Regardless, that conversation took place before the conference agenda was modified to include specific discussion of the war, or at least before Osiris became aware of that modification.

Speaking more generally, I don't know why we're seeing continued argumentation from [Osiris regarding regions attending the conference]. [They] have made [their] position clear. There will be no reversal of [their] position. This does not indicate ill will on the part of Osiris toward the regions in question, it only indicates that [they] do not believe there is any benefit to continuing the [discussion of their attendance]. There is nothing hostile about deciding to go [to the conference].

[Glen-Rhodes]

Finally a region that's lost more relations than TSP in the past few months

[Cormac A Stark]

Finally a region that's lost more relations than TSP in the past few months

None of these were treaty allies. Two of them had empty embassies.

[Glen-Rhodes]

And vastly different reputation costs, too.

[Joe Bobs]

Finally a region that's lost more relations than TSP in the past few months

I've got a few more monkey photos to post, maybe the GRA can beat the record!

[Chester Pearson]

The embassy with the Rejected Realms is being withdrawn. Closure expected in 1 day 9 hours.

The embassy with the Pacific is being withdrawn. Closure expected in 9 hours.

The embassy with the South Pacific is being withdrawn. Closure expected in 1 day 9 hours.

The embassy with Spiritus is being withdrawn. Closure expected in 1 day 9 hours.

The embassy with the West Pacific is being withdrawn. Closure expected in 21 hours.

The embassy with Ainur is being withdrawn. Closure expected in 1 day 9 hours.

Cormac has truly flipped his lid. Osiris's only hope is that somebody shuts this maniac down, and puts Durk back charge....

[Applebania]

The embassy with the Rejected Realms is being withdrawn. Closure expected in 1 day 9 hours.

The embassy with the Pacific is being withdrawn. Closure expected in 9 hours.

The embassy with the South Pacific is being withdrawn. Closure expected in 1 day 9 hours.

The embassy with Spiritus is being withdrawn. Closure expected in 1 day 9 hours.

The embassy with the West Pacific is being withdrawn. Closure expected in 21 hours.

The embassy with Ainur is being withdrawn. Closure expected in 1 day 9 hours.

Cormac has truly flipped his lid. Osiris's only hope is that somebody shuts this maniac down, and puts Durk back charge....

Goddammit Cormac! Diplomacy! It's a thing!

[Benevolent Thomas]

Osiris still has Balder and the UIAF member regions. That's all they need really.

[Blackbird]

But let's be honest, you're also the person who didn't see how Blackbird actively condoned forum destruction during his RLA days. Not exactly the person to be "seeing" things.

Probably because he sees, you know, what actually happened.

[Cormac Stark]

Termination of Relations with Ainur
Persona Non Grata Declaration for 94 Block

---

As of this decree, the Osiris Fraternal Order is formally severing our relations with the region of Ainur. As some by now may now, Ainur is harboring the individual known as 94 Block; best known for the destruction of two of Grand Central's Forums. Now only that, but Ainur has named 94 Block as their Lord Commander, which to my understanding is the Commander of their Military. Given that 94 Block's record for Forum Destruction is publicly known, and more than widely talked about, there is no way they can plead ignorance in this situation. Therefore, I hereby sever relations with the region of Ainur.

I, as Chief Executive of the Osiris Fraternal Order strongly encourage any other regions who may hold relations with Ainur to cut any formal relations for as long as Ainur continues harboring 94 Block, giving a haven for someone who should be banned from all respectable regions in Nationstates for his actions against a region that trusted him. I will be personally going over our embassies and consulates, and seriously considering if we wish to continue to have ties with regions that choose to continue their connections with Ainur. I see no reason for the Osiris Fraternal Order to have relations with regions who harbor forum crashers, or regions who tolerate those regions. If Ainur removes 94 Block, then relations may be explored once again. Furthermore, the Sekhmet Legion is prohibited from participating in any operations that also involve the military of Ainur, given the situation that I have established above. Forum Crashers are not to be tolerated in any way, shape, or form, and I hope that this statement is supported by OFO citizens.

Finally, I hereby declare the individual 94 Block as Persona Non Grata from Osiris, for his inexcusable actions of forum destruction within the region of Grand Central.




Pharaoh of the Osiris Fraternal Order

[Yokiria]

It's my understanding that Ainur has been, or will be directly notified that the removal of 94 block from their region means that relations (including military ones) may be explored once again.

Only 4 days into this new year, and we've already had to make two declarations of Persona Non Grata due to forum crashing. Such a shame.

[Anders Blakewood]

I don't speak on behalf of Ainur anymore, but I'm on the forums still. Their collective reaction seems to be a shrug. There are ways Osiris could conduct themselves other than "remove embassies first, ask questions later", but that would mean a deviation from Cormac's tenure wouldn't it?