Osiris Fraternal Order

[Venico]

Well, I can't say I'm surprised to see any sort of group headed by Cormac to flip on issues. Good to know that after less than 48 hours, you haven't even been able to hold your ground on one of your key platforms. If I were any of your supporters, I'd be questioning any further decision-making skills by a group that reverses a decision under the slightest pressure.

As for the mention of myself, since you make the claims, please back them up. I'd highly appreciate actual non-hearsay, non-tabloid evidence of my "substantial support to The Empire".
I'd love to hear some of this evidence, especially from someone like you; a former member of The House of Rahl.

I just wanted to point out that he didn't flip due to outside pressure, but internal pressure. I was uncomfortable with these people being put on a list when not all of them have directly done anything against Osiris. The reaction the community had only made Cormac listen to my reason.

[Tim-Opolis]

Well, I can't say I'm surprised to see any sort of group headed by Cormac to flip on issues. Good to know that after less than 48 hours, you haven't even been able to hold your ground on one of your key platforms. If I were any of your supporters, I'd be questioning any further decision-making skills by a group that reverses a decision under the slightest pressure.

As for the mention of myself, since you make the claims, please back them up. I'd highly appreciate actual non-hearsay, non-tabloid evidence of my "substantial support to The Empire".
I'd love to hear some of this evidence, especially from someone like you; a former member of The House of Rahl.

I just wanted to point out that he didn't flip due to outside pressure, but internal pressure. I was uncomfortable with these people being put on a list when not all of them have directly done anything against Osiris. The reaction the community had only made Cormac listen to my reason.

Even better. Instead of folding under pressure, Cormac and Co. both folds under pressure *and* has internal strife. My, my, what fine leaders you're turning out to be.
Curious, by the way, can you cite actual evidence of what I've done against Osiris then? *Actual* evidence, not Cormac's usual smoke and mirrors claims, please.

[Venico]

I'm just going to be quick here because my last chance of food for today is closing in 10 minutes, so weee!

Disagreements on issues and debate amongst leadership is not signs of internal strife, but rather discussion and reasoning. I'd prefer a leadership with people who have different viewpoints than people who unified 100% on every issue. Different minds and discussion leads to promising results.

Also I believe your very quick response to mobilize Spiritus is more than enough to keep you marked as joining their side.

Now I need to throw pants on and grab food!

[The North Polish Union]

The Osiris Fraternal Order will not remove from Osiris most of the individuals named as defender subversives in our initial statement, provided that they do not further participate in The Empire's insurrection. These individuals are Mahaj, Campinia, Flowering Staplers, and Wopruthien. Acknowledging that some of these individuals have already joined the insurrection in part as a result of our initial statement, we are giving any who have joined the insurrection 24 hours to abandon involvement in the insurrection. All four of these individuals are free to apply for citizenship in the Osiris Fraternal Order provided that they abandon The Empire's insurrection.

Well, I can't say I'm surprised to see any sort of group headed by Cormac to flip on issues. Good to know that after less than 48 hours, you haven't even been able to hold your ground on one of your key platforms. If I were any of your supporters, I'd be questioning any further decision-making skills by a group that reverses a decision under the slightest pressure.

As for the mention of myself, since you make the claims, please back them up. I'd highly appreciate actual non-hearsay, non-tabloid evidence of my "substantial support to The Empire".
I'd love to hear some of this evidence, especially from someone like you; a former member of The House of Rahl.

Actually, the tabloids haven't been saying that you've been providing substantial support to the Empire, they've been saying that you're Figs and all the rhetoric against you is to cover up your identity. How do you plan to address that?

[Tim-Opolis]

Also I believe your very quick response to mobilize Spiritus is more than enough to keep you marked as joining their side.

Last I checked, I was not the President of Spiritus and did not issue that order. I realize that you guys don't understand the concept of Democracy, or Citizen's Rights, but in Spiritus we actually elect a President. Furthermore, how is that a statement of support for Empire? Perhaps it was a statement in support of the Defenders that you flip-floppers chose to ban. You're really going to have to step up your game.
I also noticed how you entirely dodged the other request; evidence prior to the incident. Come on, if you're going to make claims then at least back them up. What kind of coupers are you, if you can't even talk the talk right.

[Biyah]

You forgot something, Tim. Cormac is not only a former member of the house of Rahl (removed for betrayal). But a current Grand Duke of the Empire. That honor had never been removed, and he confirmed he was a member at least twice. Though it might be the subject of his rants now, lets not forget that he has used our connections in order to see his will done in Osiris.

Hypocrisy is good.

Also - you all took the region and banned us. I was banned after coming onto IRC and saying (at least a near quote) "What the fuck is going on?" You qualify that as insurrection worthy of banning?

How interesting.

~B

[Dalimbar]

Venico, I would like to ask an honest question to you: If you are able to completely remove me and others you are directly scapegoating, and the defenders do sign on with your plan, what guarantees will there be that they will not be removed from Osiris based on their ideology? Or anyone, based on their ideology? With Cormac's involvement in the government, I'm sorry, but I am concerned.

[Venico]

Ah, some chips and a red bull, the meal of a true civil war delegate.

Now first off at Tim this is not a coup. I have started a war with the people of Osiris who have threatened it constantly. Secondly, I apologize for the short response but now that I know I'll be able to eat, I shall elaborate. You have supported Biyah's and Dali's moves at every turn in Osiris and have helped them keep their stranglehold. You flew the flag of Empire when they were threatening Asta, you tarted every time that it looked like war was going to break out and if I recall you were voicing against the delegate at those points, and are you denying that you urged Spiritus to take action and side with the Empire? While yes it does take voting to get the region mobilized, you were attempting to rally the region and very vocal about support for them.

At Biyah, your ejection was going to happen if you were online or not and the fact that you were ejected just as you logged on is a very big coincidence. We were waiting on Koth to get back from math class to banject you and just as he sat down you logged on. As for Cormac's affiliation with you, he has left that behind or at least so he tells me. If he starts making a run at my delegacy I'll be sure to shake my fist at how loyal you keep people. =P

[Venico]

Venico, I would like to ask an honest question to you: If you are able to completely remove me and others you are directly scapegoating, and the defenders do sign on with your plan, what guarantees will there be that they will not be removed from Osiris based on their ideology? Or anyone, based on their ideology? With Cormac's involvement in the government, I'm sorry, but I am concerned.

Hopefully a constitution will soon be providing that for people, and on a personal note I'm against that. I love hearing from opposing sides and discussing issues with everyone. I do not condone condemning people for ideologies, only for their actions.

[Tim-Opolis]

Ah, some chips and a red bull, the meal of a true civil war delegate.

Ew, Red Bull. Ah to each their own.

Now first off at Tim this is not a coup. I have started a war with the people of Osiris who have threatened it constantly.

Let's not kid ourselves here. It's a coup, and you're having more and more of a difficult time keeping that statement from being accepted truth by all parties. Since when are non-WA innocents nations that have "threatened it constantly

You have supported Biyah's and Dali's moves at every turn in Osiris and have helped them keep their stranglehold.

I disagree. I remember quite clearly wanting their heads last December. I opposed them having any sort of political power all Spring. I argued against some of the more extreme Admin calls with Biyah fairly often, if I recall. I objected to parts of their Book of the Dead revision. To say that I've supported Biyah and Dali's moves at every turn in Osiris is ridiculous. Hell, I'm pretty sure I started being vocal against some of the things Asta was doing before even they did.

You flew the flag of Empire when they were threatening Asta

So did The Imperial Crown, yet you let him in with open arms. So did A Sentimental Journey, yet he is not PnG. So did basically every member of the Executive Government besides you guys, because Asta's regime had gotten to the point where she would not allow the region to have any sort of government at all. You might be okay with Oligarchy, although you claimed to be trying to smash one, but most of us do like having more than an uncompromising despot as a Delegate. You really can't claim this against me, Venico, when you've happily accepted others who did the same. I'll remind you that Raven did it before me, even.

You tarted every time that it looked like war was going to break out and if I recall you were voicing against the delegate at those points

Yes, many people tart whenever war is about to break out. If we check Tim Stark's WA Records, however, I actually WA in Osiris basically any time I'm not moving anywhere for update for a while. Furthermore, I don't see how that was any act against the Pharaoh; my tarting. I made sure to stay below the endorsement cap, and voluntarily lowered my endorsements when they got too high. I apologize for trying to make sure my nation was harder to ban if outside forces took over the region. Alas, I never realized the force would come from within.

and are you denying that you urged Spiritus to take action and side with the Empire? While yes it does take voting to get the region mobilized, you were attempting to rally the region and very vocal about support for them.

I banned you and Koth from #spiritus. That is my right as Founder of the channel, which is not legislated or set in any laws. You seem to have completely misread my statement. I did not rally Spiritus to oppose the Breakaway Government. In fact, I did not post on the forum once about it. You're tilting at windmills again, Venico. Did you ever consider that perhaps the Defender region who just had multiple Citizens declared PnG from your breakaway government for being Defenders would oppose you? Come on, I expected more of you.

As a note, I'm heading to bed now so you'll likely have to wait about twelve hours for my reply. My apologies, but we've got exam review sessions tomorrow and I've got to be awake for those.

[Biyah]

Yeah, some of your own flew that flag too - it was one of yours that suggested it.

Hypocrisy. Again.

We took the region for 24 (only because Sam couldn't move on time at minor), and that to prove a point. You're holding it for a foreign power. That is the very definition of 'coup', so please get a new line - that one is old.

Of your main people.

1: Raven, who was part of every plot we ever had.
2: Cormac, who has been part of every plot we ever had minus the last with Asta.

Oops, those are your two biggest supporters - also the biggest flip-floppers.

Next.

[Cormac A Stark]

Of your main people.

1: Raven, who was part of every plot we ever had.
2: Cormac, who has been part of every plot we ever had minus the last with Asta.

Oops, those are your two biggest supporters - also the biggest flip-floppers.

Next.

How many "plots" did you have in Osiris? You are admitting to plots, then?

[Unibot III]

Of your main people.

1: Raven, who was part of every plot we ever had.
2: Cormac, who has been part of every plot we ever had minus the last with Asta.

Oops, those are your two biggest supporters - also the biggest flip-floppers.

Next.

How many "plots" did you have in Osiris? You are admitting to plots, then?

He said "we" to include you. Do you really want him to release what it is you and others were up to with Osiris?

[Biyah]

Come now Cormac, lets not be stupid. "Plots" is the word I use for every plan - and even you have to admit, I did a lot of government work.

For all that everyone says Empire was going to take over, or was in command - we're not in charge, and hadn't been in ages (Since Earth, she was the last confirmed Empire member in the delegacy). I am vocal, and I take command - so of course I was pushing Osiris where I wanted it. I didn't have a great success rate though, we kept getting coupers and the terminally stupid in the Delegate seat. As far as threats go, your claims against Empire lack staying power. They are, in short, an excuse.

If you want to be super literal though, I can do that. And tell me, Cormac - how many plots did we have? Be honest now, fess up. And remember I log everything. Obviously not going to hurt me any, either way. Somehow, a barely active entity is being blamed for the forced takeover of Osiris, so what the hell, eh? Lets have at.

[Cormac A Stark]

Come now Cormac, lets not be stupid. "Plots" is the word I use for every plan - and even you have to admit, I did a lot of government work.

I didn't realize you were using plots in that sense. Fair enough.

[Cerian Quilor]

"The man who refuses to judge, who neither agrees nor disagrees, who declares that there are no absolutes and believes that he escapes responsibility, is the man responsible for all the blood that is now spilled in the world. Reality is an absolute, existence is an absolute, a speck of dust is an absolute and so is a human life. Whether you live or die is an absolute. Whether you have a piece of bread or not, is an absolute. Whether you eat your bread or see it vanish into a looter's stomach, is an absolute.

There are two sides to every issue: one side is right and the other is wrong, but the middle is always evil. The man who is wrong still retains some respect for truth, if only by accepting the responsibility of choice. But the man in the middle is the knave who blanks out the truth in order to pretend that no choice or values exist, who is willing to sit out the course of any battle, willing to cash in on the blood of the innocent or to crawl on his belly to the guilty, who dispenses justice by condemning both the robber and the robbed to jail, who solves conflicts by ordering the thinker and the fool to meet each other halfway. In any compromise between food and poison, it is only death that can win. In any compromise between good and evil, it is only evil that can profit." ― Ayn Rand, Atlas Shrugged

Stand your ground, Venico. You do not stand alone.

Ayn Rand is full of crap, as usual. Find someone less insane to quote.

Ayn Rand, Atlas Shrugged

There are two novels that can change a bookish fourteen-year old's life: The Lord of the Rings and Atlas Shrugged. One is a childish fantasy that often engenders a lifelong obsession with its unbelievable heroes, leading to an emotionally stunted, socially crippled adulthood, unable to deal with the real world. The other, of course, involves orcs.

Win.

[Cerian Quilor]

Welp, I just got banned from Osiris, lol. I sent out a telegram informing people to not choose the Brotherhood of Malice and to not choose The Empire. When these two sides can't agree and can't come together, I hope the people will come together instead, and win the region back for themselves.

You can't ask people to unendorse one side and endorse the other without asking them to choose a side, Todd. You're not being neutral.

[Cerian Quilor]

I just wanted to point out that he didn't flip due to outside pressure, but internal pressure. I was uncomfortable with these people being put on a list when not all of them have directly done anything against Osiris. The reaction the community had only made Cormac listen to my reason.

Even better. Instead of folding under pressure, Cormac and Co. both folds under pressure *and* has internal strife. My, my, what fine leaders you're turning out to be.
Curious, by the way, can you cite actual evidence of what I've done against Osiris then? *Actual* evidence, not Cormac's usual smoke and mirrors claims, please.

Tim, are you really saying that any leader that changes their views on something after listening to the concerns of their constituents or the counsel of their friends and allies is flipflopping and should be condemned? If Cormac hadn't been involved in the change here, would you be condemning them, or are you just condemning Cormac because...well, he's Weathervane Stark?

I'm as much a fan of making jokes about Cormac's side-switch history (Sorry Cormac ) as the next guy, but changing your views on an issue because your constituents, friends and allies make a good arguement for a change of view is hardly flipflopping, and I don't to live in a world where our leaders can never change their minds because it will be condemned as evil flipflopping, even if they changed their minds because of reasoned discussion and debate, or because their constuents want them to.

Oh wait. I live in the United States.

Shit.

[Todd McCloud]

Welp, I just got banned from Osiris, lol. I sent out a telegram informing people to not choose the Brotherhood of Malice and to not choose The Empire. When these two sides can't agree and can't come together, I hope the people will come together instead, and win the region back for themselves.

You can't ask people to unendorse one side and endorse the other without asking them to choose a side, Todd. You're not being neutral.

Oh but I can, and I am. It really depends on who is in power, what their actions are, and who would be a major influence drain on them. I'm thinking of a word... starts with "S", and rhymes with "batedgy". It's on the tip of my tongue.

In all seriousness, you have to play with a firm knowledge of the field. A lot of it is assumption-based, some of it is politiking, and more of it is gathering information. Sentimental Journey is a long-time Osirian who has seen the ups and downs with me. Neo Kervoskia is... not really active, but let's pretend he does happen to gain the delegacy. Do you honestly believe he'd go about installing The Empire into that region? Don't get me wrong, I don't like the Empire, but I also know they're not stupid. They'd be run out of practically every region should that happen, and *both* sides would come together to stop it. Mahaj seems like a neutral who just happens to have a WA in the region with some influence. They're all different cases, but I'm banking on each case leading Osiris back into the hands of the Osirians in some fashion.

Plus, I never did say it would be my last telegram. I can still write from prison, lol.

[Cerian Quilor]

NK doesn't need to install the empire into power for the problem that the Empire represents to continue to plague Osiris.

[Ambroscus Koth]

You can't ask people to unendorse one side and endorse the other without asking them to choose a side, Todd. You're not being neutral.

Oh but I can, and I am. It really depends on who is in power, what their actions are, and who would be a major influence drain on them. I'm thinking of a word... starts with "S", and rhymes with "batedgy". It's on the tip of my tongue.

In all seriousness, you have to play with a firm knowledge of the field. A lot of it is assumption-based, some of it is politiking, and more of it is gathering information. Sentimental Journey is a long-time Osirian who has seen the ups and downs with me. Neo Kervoskia is... not really active, but let's pretend he does happen to gain the delegacy. Do you honestly believe he'd go about installing The Empire into that region? Don't get me wrong, I don't like the Empire, but I also know they're not stupid. They'd be run out of practically every region should that happen, and *both* sides would come together to stop it. Mahaj seems like a neutral who just happens to have a WA in the region with some influence. They're all different cases, but I'm banking on each case leading Osiris back into the hands of the Osirians in some fashion.

Plus, I never did say it would be my last telegram. I can still write from prison, lol.

The Empire will do whatever it takes to get back into Osiris, that much has been said. If it means using NK's large sack of influence to do so, they'll go for that any day of the week, dollars to donuts.

Mahaj is as far and removed from "neutral" as you can get. He's the bloody Chief of the Band of the United Defenders League, perhaps the least neutral job in NS.

[Vrij osiris]

Todd meant neutral as in neither Empire nor BoM.

[Southern Bellz]

Ayn Rand, Atlas Shrugged

There are two novels that can change a bookish fourteen-year old's life: The Lord of the Rings and Atlas Shrugged. One is a childish fantasy that often engenders a lifelong obsession with its unbelievable heroes, leading to an emotionally stunted, socially crippled adulthood, unable to deal with the real world. The other, of course, involves orcs.

Hahaha QFT

Sent from my DROID RAZR using Tapatalk

[Eli]

Todd's actions indicate that he is an advocate of Empire rule.


He can say he's neutral, his telegram shows him to be an Empire stooge.

[Biyah]

No - "The Empire" will not do what it takes to get Osiris. OSIRIANS will do what it takes to remove a couper with foreign support.

Isn't that right, Malice?

As I said to Cormac. If The Empire was in charge of Osiris, we'd not have had a long line of screwup delegates. We'd not be in this situation... again.