The East Pacific

[McMasterdonia]

The IRC "invasion", was a misunderstanding and was entirely meant to be a joke. The fact is that some members of Taijitu have not had a lot of experience in their diplomatic interactions with other regions outside their home. This, in my view, lead them to make jokes that while appropriate at home, were not seen as appropriate abroad.

What was originally seen as over-moderation, in addition to the subsequent involvement & attitude of Chasmanthe and his repeated harassment towards members of Taijitu after the fact, simply escalated the situation thereafter. This made members feel as though they were a part of a criminal trial, over what Taiji's believed to have been simple joking around in the IRC channel of a friendly region. Given Chasmanthe's previous role in Taijitu and his relationships with other members, and relatively recent departure from the region, his involvement was questionable and played a significant part in escalating tensions.

It was with regret that I saw the region of which my friend and NS mentor Eluvatar is a founder, have it's relations close with the East Pacific. I am disappointed that this incident spilled over into the diplomatic affairs between the East Pacific and Lazarus.

I hope that Taijitu, Lazarus and the East Pacific are able to find a way to return to positive diplomatic relations.

[British Grand Pacific]

The problem with your theory is a problem with practice, Unibot. You stated your hypothesis after a series of unfortunate events, proceeded to gather evidence to support the claim, presented findings for peer review, and not one person was able to duplicate the results. Possibly because the theory is propped up by character assassination via yellow journalism after Todd lead the charge against you during the Defender Act period. Consistently attacking Todd for your failure to sell an ideology in TEP is where you go completely 'round the bend and will remain the basis for all proofs of impossibility against your theory.



ETA - While the IRC invasion was meant as a joke, was potentially a misunderstanding, it was the attitude and response of the Lazarene Chairman that was most unfortunate. I was in the room when Ramaeus attempted to resolve the issue. He was met with ridicule and disdain. The termination clause in the treaty required a week's notice. In that time, Lazarus made no attempt to save the treaty. All of us involved in the discussion to close hoped they would have made some effort beyond "lol k"- we were amenable to retaining it. It appears Lazarene diplomacy is nothing more than sophmoric misunderstandings and jokes these days.

[Unibot III]

The problem with your theory is a problem with practice, Unibot. You stated your hypothesis after a series of unfortunate events, proceeded to gather evidence to support the claim, presented findings for peer review, and not one person was able to duplicate the results. Possibly because the theory is propped up by character assassination via yellow journalism after Todd lead the charge against you during the Defender Act period. Consistently attacking Todd for your failure to sell an ideology in TEP is where you go completely 'round the bend and will remain the basis for all proofs of impossibility against your theory.

So what you're saying is if it wasn't me who proposed this "theory" it would be a contestable theory - because you see the speaker and the argument as intrinsically linked. Which is why you're digging up stuff from the "Defender Act", last year at the hope of discrediting a problem with TEP's Foreign Affairs portfolio now.

Good for you.

My experience in FA in Game-Created Regions says that grand statements and FA swindles are generally the result of ideological and personal conflicts, which package themselves as "diplomatic offenses". Despite the fact that (normally) it is not in the interests of anyone to deliberately kill relations with regions, NS powers do it all of the time. "Why" has a primitive answer, but "How" is a much more important question. You manufacture a political crisis to give you an excuse to end relations and save face during the whole process.

This isn't a "GCR conspiracy" - that's how GCR diplomacy usually is conducted. It's the default diplomatic technique.

A classic example would be Balder closing relations with UDL because it had been using the original Balder flag over Balder's embassy, without first contacting UDL officials about the flag needing to be updated (and Balder's original flag still flying over Balder's default forum skin). That's what you do. When you want to end relations, you find a reason.. something that could be construed as wrong and pass the blame on the closure of relations onto the person who you're closing relations with for some trivial nonsense, be it, warzones invaded, or colorful slights or "They're Nazi Sympathizers" or rude or something.

I had that technique used against me almost every month while I was leader of the UDL. All I can do is encourage Funkadelia to not buy it - because this is what they try to do. Put the fire under your feet, make you doubt yourself and get your supporters to doubt you. Try to cook you for lunch. It's easier for them to pursue this method of diplomacy, than it is for them to admit publicly they're pursuing a different geopolitical direction and arrangement. Ultimately, they're just trying to make it look as though someone else is responsible for this shift, instead of having to articulate the actual reasons for a geopolitical shift to their own citizens (which is often hard to intellectualize and articulate - it's practically a self-referential, whimsy decision).

[Solorni]

A classic example would be Balder closing relations with UDL because it had been using the original Balder flag over Balder's embassy, without first contacting UDL officials about the flag needing to be updated (and Balder's original flag still flying over Balder's default forum skin). That's what you do. When you want to end relations, you find a reason.. something that could be construed as wrong and pass the blame on the closure of relations onto the person who you're closing relations with for some trivial nonsense, be it, warzones invaded, or colorful slights or "They're Nazi Sympathizers" or rude or something.

Ummm... this isn't even remotely close to being true. The issue with the flag was resolved long before Balder ended relations with the UDL. Please get your fact straights and cease posting trivial nonsense.

[Todd McCloud]

The IRC "invasion", was a misunderstanding and was entirely meant to be a joke. The fact is that some members of Taijitu have not had a lot of experience in their diplomatic interactions with other regions outside their home. This, in my view, lead them to make jokes that while appropriate at home, were not seen as appropriate abroad.

Involved were the Taijitu MoFA (identified as such), Funk, and yourself. I agree it was probably a bit of an overreaction in hindsight, but still, it's common courtesy to not go over to someone's IRC and make a mess of things. If I recall, we weren't the only region that didn't get the joke. As for the series of unfortunate events that followed, I will agree, it is a disappointment. But as far as I know with TEP, they don't typically go looking for reasons to close embassies. Until that point, our two regions enjoyed friendship. Granted, the friendship waned over the years, but still, it was admired. Which is why this is all the more atypical. But I do know Elu would have done his best to mediate the conflict. Too bad we did not have his acumen in this situation.

[Solorni]

First the Chief of the UDL, wrote this via the UDL account:

Personal attacks that were launched by people from the imperialist sphere, as opposed to from members of the UDL. Let us also recognize who was driven out of Balder in a witch hunt: Defenders, not Imperialists.

Let us also take this opportunity to recognize that Balder has refused to enforce the PSSP in a timely manner: probably because their leaders are also influential in the UIAF, influential in keeping Osiris under their Gatesvillean shackles.

The UDL then wrote Balder the following apology:

It has now come to our attention that some members of Balder have taken offense to certain statements by the UDL regarding Balder.

The UDL apologizes for any offense that was taken by these members from our statements. We hope to be able to put this situation behind us as we move forward to the goal of freeing Osiris.

The UDL hopes that Balder will indeed prosecute its offending members as soon as possible.

This was viewed as inadequate in Balder given that it did not apologize for the actual statement or intent. We requested a better apology to which point the UDL wrote that we could write one up for the UDL. I wrote in Balder at the time:

They asked me to write their apology for them, but that... kinda defeats the purpose of an apology.

To which, after deliberations we released the following message:

The Government of Balder has become concerned with the unwarranted criticism leveled at Balder by the United Defenders League and it’s leadership. This is not the first time that Balder has come under fire by the UDL and it’s leader, and previously the UDL has apologized for such behaviour towards our region.

Earth, the Former Chief of Feeder and Sinker Affairs recently said in an official statement to Balder that:

“UDL has no official commentary on the government of Balder or its internal workings. It is none of our business, officially, unless it falls under the Rogue Delegacy Policy--which we have used once before in dealings with Luxembourg. We have not released anything official commenting on the behaviour of the Balder government. We, as an organization, do not consider what each individual member of the UDL says as official UDL policy or at all linked to the UDL unless said statement was released under a UDL header.”

Balder cannot accept the criticism as posted on the Nationstates forums via the founder account of the United Defenders League to be anything other than the official view of the UDL and it’s leadership. This seems in stark contrast to the statement recently released to Balder, and demonstrates that the UDL is going back on it’s word to not interfere or commentate on the government of Balder and it’s internal workings.

The Former Chief of Feeder and Sinker Affairs went on to say “we have decided to keep diplomatic ties open and hope that such attacks from either side are not seen again.” Unfortunately we have seen such attacks again today from the Chief of the United Defenders League and from other senior Lieutenants and members of the UDL. Balder therefore can only assume, that we will have to tolerate such unjustified attacks on our region from the UDL again in the future. With this in mind, we do not believe that it is beneficial to Balder or warranted, or even desirable for us to continue holding an Embassy with the United Defenders League.

The UDL is becoming increasingly distracted from the real conflicts in military gameplay. There is much work that needs to be done if we are to see our ally Osiris free and returned to it’s legitimate native rule. The internal politics of Balder is not the concern of the United Defenders League. We remain committed to an independent and free Osiris, and would encourage all other regions and organizations involved to remain focused on achieving that goal.

So Unibot in bringing up this whole "flag" issue is wholly wrong as is his reasoning that it was simply down to personal reasons. If we were to close relations with the UDL over personal relations, we would have done it when we banned him from the forums for continual harassment of our members. Yet, we maintained relations with the UDL until they once again went back on their word.

On top of that, the original UDL statement that our statement refers to was another woeful attempt at diplomacy by Unibot which had left many members of Balder dissatisfied.

EDIT: I do want to apologize for threadjacking. It was merely my intention to correct the blatant lies and slander levelled by Unibot at Balder.

[PrussianEmpire]

Rach, no need to apologize - your input is more than welcome.

Unibot, can I now assume that everything you say is being said as Delegate of TRR or do you need to add the disclaimer you are only speaking for yourself and for any region you have a position in, similar to GRs? ?

[Ramaeus]

-snip-

You seem incapable of realizing that a defender is capable of erring. You seem to think that, because we withdrew from our treaty with Lazarus, we are up to something nefarious, because, in your worldview, a defender is infallible. This may surprise you, Unibot, but defenders are capable of blundering, especially in the diplomatic sphere. And Lazarus blundered repeatedly when they dealt with us. Their repeated errors against us became so egregious that it was necessary to extricate ourselves from this "partnership".

Regardless, because we extricated ourselves from this relationship, and because I'm not a defender, you naturally think that we are slowly manipulating our way into another sphere. We aren't. You seem to have conveniently forgotten that we have a treaty with The United Defender's League, that the founder of Spiritus--a region we share in-game and offsite embassies with--is a member of The East Pacific's cabinet, that the overseeing officer of EPSA is a defender and is also one of my closest confidants, and a myriad of other defender influences within TEP. In short, the dissolution of our treaty with Lazarus means that we no longer have a treaty with Lazarus. And that is all it means.

I do not engage in the backstabbing, nefarious, and underhanded politics you think I do, Unibot. And, quite frankly, I find your accusations that I manipulate people I am close to incredibly repugnant and offensive.

[Aperi]

This is Peter posting, the real person behind the computer screen. Not the IC persona of Aperi. I have been on *medical* leave for the past month. I intend to continue playing. That's why I've been unreachable.

[Such Activities]

This is Peter posting, the real person behind the computer screen. Not the IC persona of Aperi. I have been on *medical* leave for the past month. I intend to continue playing. That's why I've been unreachable.

*get better Karpy *

[Aperi]

This is Peter posting, the real person behind the computer screen. Not the IC persona of Aperi. I have been on *medical* leave for the past month. I intend to continue playing. That's why I've been unreachable.

*get better Karpy *

Thank you. I didn't post for sympathy posts, but just so it's known I didn't "ignore TEP" on detags

[Ramaeus]

This is Peter posting, the real person behind the computer screen. Not the IC persona of Aperi. I have been on *medical* leave for the past month. I intend to continue playing. That's why I've been unreachable.

An understandable reason to be nigh unreachable. I wish you well, and hope you recover fully. Our umbrage with Lazarus on the particular issue of EPSA's flurry of detags comes from the complete lack of notification surrounding your absence, rather than your absence itself. It is also but an example of a larger issue that we have had with Lazarus. Nevertheless, from one player to another, I bear you and Lazarus no ill will and wish you nothing but the best for your future. Get well, Aperi.

[Xoriet]

*get better Karpy *

Thank you. I didn't post for sympathy posts, but just so it's known I didn't "ignore TEP" on detags

I heard about it a bit ago from Uni. Feel better, Karp.

[Aperi]

This is Peter posting, the real person behind the computer screen. Not the IC persona of Aperi. I have been on *medical* leave for the past month. I intend to continue playing. That's why I've been unreachable.

An understandable reason to be nigh unreachable. I wish you well, and hope you recover fully. Our umbrage with Lazarus on the particular issue of EPSA's flurry of detags comes from the complete lack of notification surrounding your absence, rather than your absence itself. It is also but an example of a larger issue that we have had with Lazarus. Nevertheless, from one player to another, I bear you and Lazarus no ill will and wish you nothing but the best for your future. Get well, Aperi.

It was nothing personal, but sudden and very few knew the true nature of my absence. As I told you before on IRC, I will always have eternal respect for TEP.

[PrussianEmpire]

Take care athos, it'd be a shame for you to make anything but a full recovery.

[Ramaeus]

Statement on The Lazarus Coup d'etat

The East Pacific is withdrawing its embassy with Lazarus. We have waited roughly three days due to the lack of information present. Proponents about the origins of this coup and its supporters have emerged. And when proponents posit the plausible and frightening possibility that one of our closest allies is the instigator and main supporter of this coup, caution and patience become two important virtues. But, when in consideration of recent developments, we firmly believe that now is the time to act. And it is due to the disturbing support that the rogue Stujenske regime has received: forum destroyer 94 Block.

The East Pacific recognizes The People's Republic of Lazarus, led by People's Revolutionary Spokesperson Funkadelia, as the legitimate and rightful government of Lazarus. We condemn the actions of the tyrant Stujenske, and his violation of Lazarus' regional sovereignty. We hope that the region is restored to its legitimate stewards, and that stability and peace are brought to Lazarus.

Ramaeus Montresor

Delegate of The East Pacific

[Kaboomlandia]

I assume this means you will be voting FOR the condemnation of Stujenske if it makes quorum?

- Kaboomlandia
United Allied Confederacy Founder

[Pollaetorian]

I think TEP has the biggest seal above their statement.

This is an important distinction, as we know the content of the statements is about the same between all the regions.

[Ramaeus]

I think TEP has the biggest seal above their statement.

This is an important distinction, as we know the content of the statements is about the same between all the regions.

Indeed.

*compares our statement to other region's statements*

We clearly aren't overcompensating for anything.

[Tim Stark]

I assume this means you will be voting FOR the condemnation of Stujenske if it makes quorum?

- Kaboomlandia
United Allied Confederacy Founder

For what reason would TEP vote for what could most certainly be seen as nothing more than a glorified backpat? GPers love our C/C's regardless of what color they are.

A strong statement from TEP, though, and a lovely badge.

[Consular]

I don't think I've seen that seal before. Is it new? I scrolled back to your last statement but the image from that one has apparently self destructed.

[Funkadelia]

On behalf of all Lazarenes, I thank The East Pacific for their strong statement.

[Ramaeus]

I don't think I've seen that seal before. Is it new? I scrolled back to your last statement but the image from that one has apparently self destructed.

It's new, yes. We held a "seal of the executive" contest. That seal won.

[Jean Pierre Trudeau]

I congratulate The East Pacific on severing their diplomatic ties with The Pacific over their recent blood shedding in Lazarus. I call on your government to remove one of the three perpetrators of that massacre, A Mean Old Man from your ranks and force him into exile. If there is to be any justice for the fallen victims, the perpetrators must be held accountable for their actions.

[Ramaeus]

There will be a statement on the matter later this week.