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Defender/Intel tools for Gameplay

Talk about regional management and politics, raider/defender gameplay, and other game-related matters.
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Letoilenoir
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Defender/Intel tools for Gameplay

Postby Letoilenoir » Sat Aug 18, 2012 3:17 pm

Disclaimer:I am fully aware that the "established" organisations will probably have much better, more sophisticated techniques in their arsenals for this sort of thing so this is aimed at the fledgling regions that are considering developing this stuff - if you are willing to share them guys please step forward.

These are all Pipe derived tools so should be considered as a starting point rather than a solution to your intel needs - you can get your pet developers to add the functionality that you desire

First up is :WA Applications
This simply queries the WA page and captures the nations that have applied to join the WA - it returns these records along with links to those same nations

"So what," I hear you say," I can get THAT info from looking at the WA page itself" and you would be quite correct.

However, subscribe to the RSS for this pipe and your RSS reader of choice will start to build up a history of which nations have applied - instead of having only who has applied in the last few minutes/hours you have access of who has applied since you started to track them
The links provided via this feed only point to the nation, but they can be reformatted to add the nation straight into your dossier - if your pet geek is on the ball he could probably arrange for this to happen automatically

Now the above may be considered as overkill by all but the most paranoid security chief so Admissions will probably be of more immediate use to most, recording those nations that have actually joined the WA. Again the link could be reworked to add the subject nations straight into your dossier if you so desired

Now if you do start using either of the above to populate your dossier it will soon become full of deadand/or dormant nations - so how to cleanse the data and make sure that you are only tracking nations in the WA or those applying for WA status? Simple, Departures will return links to those nations who, for whatever reason, have chosen to leave the WA - again with a subtle reworking of the links this could be modified to allow you to remove nations from your dossier that you no longer need to track

None of the above take into consideration WHERE the nation is at any of the given stages - the vast majority of WA activity no doubt goes on in the feeders and many of the nations there play no part in extra-regional events - but to filter out those would require another layer of coding rather than the simple lists that these three pipes supply. If you want to take this onto that next stage please be my guest & please feel free to return to this thread and share!

Remember, if we co-operate there will come a point when there is real danger that peace will break out!
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The Mastermind
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Postby The Mastermind » Sat Aug 18, 2012 4:12 pm

:) Ok, I didn't knew this until now. Thanks for the info

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Ambroscus Koth
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Postby Ambroscus Koth » Sat Aug 18, 2012 10:47 pm

Wow, defenders have all these tools on their side and they still can't stop us. Interesting :P
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Improving Wordiness
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Postby Improving Wordiness » Sat Aug 18, 2012 11:25 pm

From what I have seen there is an abundance of Tools on the invading side of things :roll:
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Frattastan
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Postby Frattastan » Sun Aug 19, 2012 1:36 am

Ambroscus Koth wrote:Wow, defenders have all these tools on their side and they still can't stop us. Interesting :P


Letoilenoir isn't a defender. Or a raider.
He rejects the invader-defender dichotomy and claims to be neither. But probably he's both. :P
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Klaus Devestatorie
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Postby Klaus Devestatorie » Sun Aug 19, 2012 3:14 am

Improving Wordiness wrote:From what I have seen there is an abundance of Tools on the invading side of things :roll:

I'm a massive tool. ;)

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Guy
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Postby Guy » Sun Aug 19, 2012 5:19 am

Maybe we should all go on Toolies this year? *glances at Ava and Wordy* :P
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Eist
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Postby Eist » Sun Aug 19, 2012 6:54 am

Pipes is good. Combined with the API

http://www.nationstates.net/pages/api.html

they can get you all the help you need.
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Klaus Devestatorie
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Postby Klaus Devestatorie » Sun Aug 19, 2012 6:56 am

Guy wrote:Maybe we should all go on Toolies this year? *glances at Ava and Wordy* :P

couldn't make that if I wanted to, South Australia's Schoolies is difficult enough for the year 12s to get in, let alone for anyone else.

Besides, we'd have to think of things to do other than play nationstates.

Finally, not many raiders are gonna be crazy enough to drop off their secret weapons in here.
Last edited by Klaus Devestatorie on Sun Aug 19, 2012 6:57 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Letoilenoir
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Postby Letoilenoir » Sun Aug 19, 2012 8:51 am

My dear Ambroscus Koth, obtaining the information is one thing, interpreting it is quite another - lets take one of the latest admissions:
5 minutes ago: The Palatine voted for the World Assembly Resolution "Repeal "Nuclear Power Safety Act"".
9 minutes ago: The Palatine was admitted to the World Assembly.
9 hours ago: Following new legislation in The Palatine, the alarmingly racist TV show 'Bigtopians Say the Darndest Things' is a hit.
9 hours ago: Following new legislation in The Palatine, voting is voluntary.
9 hours ago: Following new legislation in The Palatine, scientists regularly clone human beings for research purposes.
9 hours ago: Following new legislation in The Palatine, organ donation rates have hit a new low.
19 hours ago: The Palatine applied to join the World Assembly.
20 hours ago: The Palatine relocated from The East Pacific to Europeia.
20 hours ago: The Palatine was founded.


Ostensibly this is a newly created nation, moving to Europeia, joining the WA and voting on a resolution - nothing sinister there then.

However, how you interpret the above dictates you actions - lets take the timescale first.

The fact that the nation has been founded, moved to a GCR, applied for WA membership, and then acted upon it as soon as possible suggests that the player behind the nation is either:
  • A new enthusiastic player who can follow instructions
  • An existing player who already knows the drill

So that's our first unknown.

Staying with this nation, why has it moved to Europeia?
Is it an innocent recipient of a recruitment TG, or is it a veteran creating a puppet because:
  • they don't want their "main" nation to be subject to the vagaries of WA legislation
  • they are posing as a new nation to infiltrate Europeia's military/political edifice
  • Europeia are mobilising and the nation will be despatched elsewhere as a non-updater at a later point

That's two unknowns

What about the timing of the events?
Is it merely coincidence that Europeia has another WA at its disposal so shortly before update is due to start?
Are we reading too much into Europeias prior behaviour as a raider - after all they have not been that visible of late.

So the questions that the Internal Minister of Europeia has to ask in relation to this particular nation are the same that Fratt would have to ask in his role as a Defender - what do we know about this nation and what is their intent?

And that is only ONE of the many nations that has joined the WA prior to the latest update!

Additionally, none of the information obtained from the Pipes is capable of highlighting where these nations are bound - the data relating to the behaviour of any one nation can be gleaned from the API as Eist has pointed out, but it is still a massive task to filter which nations are "active" in Military Gameplay, from those who are just participating in their own regions politics/WA business.

We haven't even touched on which regions might be targeted!


Anyway, back to the Pipes, they can also be fed into an RSS widget which can be embedded in your regions forum if you so wish - the code is in the spoiler below.

Code: Select all
<!-- start sw-rss-feed code -->
<script type="text/javascript">
<!--
rssfeed_url = new Array();
rssfeed_url[0]="http://pipes.yahoo.com/pipes/pipe.run?_id=5c7e7c9fed47de00a19daad2d300930f&_render=rss"; 
rssfeed_frame_width="200";
rssfeed_frame_height="300";
rssfeed_scroll="on";
rssfeed_scroll_step="6";
rssfeed_scroll_bar="on";
rssfeed_target="_blank";
rssfeed_font_size="12";
rssfeed_font_face="Garamond";
rssfeed_border="on";
rssfeed_css_url="http://feed.surfing-waves.com/css/style3a.css";
rssfeed_title="on";
rssfeed_title_name="";
rssfeed_title_bgcolor="#3366ff";
rssfeed_title_color="#fff";
rssfeed_title_bgimage="http://";
rssfeed_footer="off";
rssfeed_footer_name="rss feed";
rssfeed_footer_bgcolor="#fff";
rssfeed_footer_color="#333";
rssfeed_footer_bgimage="http://";
rssfeed_item_title_length="50";
rssfeed_item_title_color="#666";
rssfeed_item_bgcolor="#fff";
rssfeed_item_bgimage="http://";
rssfeed_item_border_bottom="on";
rssfeed_item_source_icon="off";
rssfeed_item_date="off";
rssfeed_item_description="on";
rssfeed_item_description_length="120";
rssfeed_item_description_color="#666";
rssfeed_item_description_link_color="#333";
rssfeed_item_description_tag="off";
rssfeed_no_items="0";
rssfeed_cache = "47cf6b5bf363963c25dc316789a763fd";
//-->
</script>
<script type="text/javascript" src="http://feed.surfing-waves.com/js/rss-feed.js"></script>
<!-- The link below helps keep this service FREE, and helps other people find the SW widget. Please be cool and keep it! Thanks. -->
<div style="text-align:right; width:200px;"><a href="http://www.surfing-waves.com" target="_blank" alt="www.surfing-waves.com"><img src="http://img.surfing-waves.com/images/swlogo.png" border="0" alt="surfing waves"></a><a href="http://www.surfing-waves.com/feed.htm" target="_blank" style="color:#ccc;font-size:10px">feedwidget</a></div>
<!-- end sw-rss-feed code -->
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Ambroscus Koth
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Postby Ambroscus Koth » Sun Aug 19, 2012 11:05 am

Was that post directed at me? I am aware of how the WA and invader puppets work.
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Letoilenoir
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Postby Letoilenoir » Sun Aug 19, 2012 11:26 am

Ambroscus Koth wrote:Was that post directed at me? I am aware of how the WA and invader puppets work.


I would certainly hope so give your standing in Asgard however, your earlier input could be perceived to infer that all one has to do to "win" at Military Gameplay is to get hold of some magic tool that will guarantee you victory after victory.

You and I both know that this is not the case, and your comments were at best ill considered, at worst a thinly veiled attempt to taunt those who have chosen to defend
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Ambroscus Koth
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Postby Ambroscus Koth » Sun Aug 19, 2012 11:36 am

Letoilenoir wrote:at worst a thinly veiled attempt to taunt those who have chosen to defend


That's one way to say "teasing", I guess.
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SunRawr
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Postby SunRawr » Sun Aug 19, 2012 6:00 pm

Letoilenoir wrote:My dear Ambroscus Koth, obtaining the information is one thing, interpreting it is quite another - lets take one of the latest admissions:
5 minutes ago: The Palatine voted for the World Assembly Resolution "Repeal "Nuclear Power Safety Act"".
9 minutes ago: The Palatine was admitted to the World Assembly.
9 hours ago: Following new legislation in The Palatine, the alarmingly racist TV show 'Bigtopians Say the Darndest Things' is a hit.
9 hours ago: Following new legislation in The Palatine, voting is voluntary.
9 hours ago: Following new legislation in The Palatine, scientists regularly clone human beings for research purposes.
9 hours ago: Following new legislation in The Palatine, organ donation rates have hit a new low.
19 hours ago: The Palatine applied to join the World Assembly.
20 hours ago: The Palatine relocated from The East Pacific to Europeia.
20 hours ago: The Palatine was founded.


Ostensibly this is a newly created nation, moving to Europeia, joining the WA and voting on a resolution - nothing sinister there then.

However, how you interpret the above dictates you actions - lets take the timescale first.

The fact that the nation has been founded, moved to a GCR, applied for WA membership, and then acted upon it as soon as possible suggests that the player behind the nation is either:
  • A new enthusiastic player who can follow instructions
  • An existing player who already knows the drill

So that's our first unknown.

Staying with this nation, why has it moved to Europeia?
Is it an innocent recipient of a recruitment TG, or is it a veteran creating a puppet because:
  • they don't want their "main" nation to be subject to the vagaries of WA legislation
  • they are posing as a new nation to infiltrate Europeia's military/political edifice
  • Europeia are mobilising and the nation will be despatched elsewhere as a non-updater at a later point

That's two unknowns

What about the timing of the events?
Is it merely coincidence that Europeia has another WA at its disposal so shortly before update is due to start?
Are we reading too much into Europeias prior behaviour as a raider - after all they have not been that visible of late.

So the questions that the Internal Minister of Europeia has to ask in relation to this particular nation are the same that Fratt would have to ask in his role as a Defender - what do we know about this nation and what is their intent?

And that is only ONE of the many nations that has joined the WA prior to the latest update!

Additionally, none of the information obtained from the Pipes is capable of highlighting where these nations are bound - the data relating to the behaviour of any one nation can be gleaned from the API as Eist has pointed out, but it is still a massive task to filter which nations are "active" in Military Gameplay, from those who are just participating in their own regions politics/WA business.

We haven't even touched on which regions might be targeted!


Any raider who is properly trained on stealth can avoid any of those signs. Hell, I'll give the password of the DEN Central Command founder nation to anyone who can find my current WA. (TG your guesses if you decide to try, this is not the topic for it.)

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Eist
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Postby Eist » Sun Aug 19, 2012 6:49 pm

SunRawr wrote:Any raider who is properly trained on stealth can avoid any of those signs. Hell, I'll give the password of the DEN Central Command founder nation to anyone who can find my current WA. (TG your guesses if you decide to try, this is not the topic for it.)


It Interests me that you purport to have ninja stealth, but yet you and your group only raid like rotund barreling brutes. Entering the WA 10 minutes before update with dirty puppets in a well known staging region isn't indicative of your "skills". Admittedly, you can click the "move nation" button when the clock says to very well, though.
Unibot III wrote:Frankly, the lows that people sink to in this game is perhaps the most disturbing thing about NationStates Gameplay.

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Ambroscus Koth
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Postby Ambroscus Koth » Sun Aug 19, 2012 6:53 pm

Eist wrote:
SunRawr wrote:Any raider who is properly trained on stealth can avoid any of those signs. Hell, I'll give the password of the DEN Central Command founder nation to anyone who can find my current WA. (TG your guesses if you decide to try, this is not the topic for it.)


It Interests me that you purport to have ninja stealth, but yet you and your group only raid like rotund barreling brutes. Entering the WA 10 minutes before update with dirty puppets in a well known staging region isn't indicative of your "skills". Admittedly, you can click the "move nation" button when the clock says to very well, though.


The whole "RAIDING TAKES NO SKILLZ" crap gets old after a while. You would be complaining if we only did strategic stealth missions too.
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SunRawr
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Postby SunRawr » Sun Aug 19, 2012 6:57 pm

Eist wrote:
SunRawr wrote:Any raider who is properly trained on stealth can avoid any of those signs. Hell, I'll give the password of the DEN Central Command founder nation to anyone who can find my current WA. (TG your guesses if you decide to try, this is not the topic for it.)


It Interests me that you purport to have ninja stealth, but yet you and your group only raid like rotund barreling brutes. Entering the WA 10 minutes before update with dirty puppets in a well known staging region isn't indicative of your "skills". Admittedly, you can click the "move nation" button when the clock says to very well, though.

Psh. Just because I haven't done much (any?) stealth raiding this summer doesn't mean I never have. I have, and have done well.
Any other concerns about me and my skills can be directed to my inbox. As I said before, this is not the thread for that.

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Letoilenoir
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Postby Letoilenoir » Tue Aug 21, 2012 3:19 pm

On a related note Region/Delegate Listing provides, well, a chronological region listing of the regions, their delegates & how many endorsements they hold

As you can no doubt deduce it relies on the daily data dump and is so is only as up to date as the last file loaded on the server (as you cam see its a bit out of date at the moment) but I am sure that some uber geek would be able to code in a "cron job" to handle that

Thanks go to Scoochi2 and Fischistan for the coding!

Now the observant amongst you will note that many regions have "0" as a delegate - this is intentional - if you are wondering why then perhap s you should reconsider your choice to become involved in military gameplay

Again, it doesn't tell you if a region is passworded etc, but then you don't want everything on a plate do you?

Oh, and many thanks to Max for the CSS!
Last edited by Letoilenoir on Sat Oct 04, 2014 2:45 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Eist
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Postby Eist » Tue Aug 21, 2012 3:56 pm

Wow! That's really cool! It is possible to automate it so that it doesn't require someone to manually add the most recent update from the data dumps, right?

Thanks, Scoochi2 and Fischistan. It's sweet :)
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Blackbird
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Postby Blackbird » Fri Aug 24, 2012 6:11 am

This is just trying to use big data. That's not intel. The most valuable intel is always humint.
Last edited by Blackbird on Fri Aug 24, 2012 6:14 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Crushing Our Enemies
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Postby Crushing Our Enemies » Fri Aug 24, 2012 7:20 am

Blackbird wrote:This is just trying to use big data. That's not intel. The most valuable intel is always humint.

Yeah, but the game isn't about intel anymore. It's an unfortunate turn of events, in my opinion, but not one that can be easily rectified.
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Blackbird
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Postby Blackbird » Fri Aug 24, 2012 7:56 am

Crushing Our Enemies wrote:
Blackbird wrote:This is just trying to use big data. That's not intel. The most valuable intel is always humint.

Yeah, but the game isn't about intel anymore. It's an unfortunate turn of events, in my opinion, but not one that can be easily rectified.


It seems to me that one could easily run an intelligence operation based on the old methods.

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Eist
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Postby Eist » Fri Aug 24, 2012 8:21 am

Blackbird wrote:
Crushing Our Enemies wrote:Yeah, but the game isn't about intel anymore. It's an unfortunate turn of events, in my opinion, but not one that can be easily rectified.


It seems to me that one could easily run an intelligence operation based on the old methods.


I don't see why raiders can't use intelligence any more. The fundamental mechanics are still the same. I think LWU + others in Anarchy (which wasn't that smart because EW CTE then returned like a bumbling bumble bee) was the last time raiders did something interesting.
Unibot III wrote:Frankly, the lows that people sink to in this game is perhaps the most disturbing thing about NationStates Gameplay.

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Blackbird
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Postby Blackbird » Fri Aug 24, 2012 8:26 am

Eist wrote:
Blackbird wrote:
It seems to me that one could easily run an intelligence operation based on the old methods.


I don't see why raiders can't use intelligence any more. The fundamental mechanics are still the same. I think LWU + others in Anarchy (which wasn't that smart because EW CTE then returned like a bumbling bumble bee) was the last time raiders did something interesting.


Raiders can use intelligence methods the same way, but structurally, they're not able to use those methods. Raiders are fundamentally set up for short-term gains, and intelligence methods that require long-term investments with little short-term gain are unappealing to an organization that is structurally designed as raiders are.

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Eist
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Postby Eist » Fri Aug 24, 2012 11:03 am

Blackbird wrote:
Eist wrote:
I don't see why raiders can't use intelligence any more. The fundamental mechanics are still the same. I think LWU + others in Anarchy (which wasn't that smart because EW CTE then returned like a bumbling bumble bee) was the last time raiders did something interesting.


Raiders can use intelligence methods the same way, but structurally, they're not able to use those methods. Raiders are fundamentally set up for short-term gains, and intelligence methods that require long-term investments with little short-term gain are unappealing to an organization that is structurally designed as raiders are.


I don't understand why "structurally, they're not able to use those methods". I can see that they choose not to use these methods, but I can't see what prohibits them. There seems to have been a shift in focus (facilitated by opening the API, amongst other smaller changes) from beating defenders to annoying innocent natives for no particular reason. I would totally support a return to the roots where raiders used stealth and intrigue to capture regions from the inside-out, only because it's surely more interesting for everyone, but I'm not holding my breath. They are enamoured with these flash raids and sitting in some inconsequential region baiting natives then leaving with no gain at all. Nobody remembers. Nobody cares.
Unibot III wrote:Frankly, the lows that people sink to in this game is perhaps the most disturbing thing about NationStates Gameplay.

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