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An Apology from Unknown

Talk about regional management and politics, raider/defender gameplay, and other game-related matters.
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Kshrlmnt
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New York Times Democracy

An Apology from Unknown

Postby Kshrlmnt » Sun Jul 31, 2011 7:59 pm

A year ago today, Unknown was condemned for the forum destruction committed by one of its operatives, Rougiers.

There is little to say that has not already been said. Rougiers completed the task assigned to him, to gather IPs and other information for our own region's security. Forum destruction was not part of his assignment.

Unknown judged Rougiers based on the success of his assigned mission, not his actions after its completion. This judgment was never meant to be an encouragement of such tactics, and hopefully has not been interpreted as such.

But on the anniversary of our condemnation, we wish to reiterate: We do not, nor will we, encourage forum attacks like this. They will not be done in our name or on our behalf.

To The Council of Narnia and the Crusaders of Justice: We are truly sorry for what part we played in your loss, and for our unsympathetic response to your legitimate complaints. In the end, we too trusted Rougiers too much, and were nearly destroyed by him. Our loss was not the same as yours, but served as a wakeup call--though none should have been needed.

The deletions and bannings perpetrated by Rougiers never should have happened. They, and our response to them, are inextricably tied to our region's past, but they are not who we are or who we want to be. There is nothing we can do to change the past; we can only learn from it, and offer our humble apologies.

Signed,

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Elindra Kshrlmnt Dion Diablessa
Lady of Loquacity and Archempress of Unknown

Mistress of the lolcats, Secretary of NS Disney, Author of Ask Ellie, Victim of the illustrious Flag Thief, Member of PETI
She whose name can too be pronounced

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I get sad when I offend elindra because I don't intend to yet I will do absolutely nothing to prevent it

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Unibot II
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Ex-Nation

Postby Unibot II » Sun Jul 31, 2011 8:15 pm

*salutes*

Dismayed with Unknown's refusal to accept responsibility; issuing instead a message to other regional governments blaming both The Crusaders of Justice and The Council of Narnia for the damage to their own regional forums,


This statement negates this penultimate clause of the text. I think if the condemnation is to be repealed however, Unknown should also become an active opposition to forum destruction -- maybe having to do with COPS or something. As I said in the latest "Repeal 'Commend Sedgistan'" debate, SC resolutions are not textbooks but a living and mutable history.
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Topid
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Capitalizt

Postby Topid » Sun Jul 31, 2011 8:21 pm

Hmm.

I think if this is to be read as an admission that a region, Unknown in this case, holds responsibility for the actions of their agents even when the agent is not ordered to take the action, and that Unknown owns up to the mistake of trusting Roug and apologizes for its mistake, it would be reasonable to take down the condemnation.

I'd be willing to offer whatever help the region wants, assuming the above is true.

EDIT: Also, I think this apology is rather impressive, actually. I must same I'm totally surprised by it.
Last edited by Topid on Sun Jul 31, 2011 8:21 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Yuktova
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Ex-Nation

Postby Yuktova » Sun Jul 31, 2011 8:27 pm

I beieve that Rougiers should have been condemned rather than condemn Unknown. It looks to me that this region was innocent, and was a pawn in Rougiers' game of "destory the region". Hopefully, someone will repeal the unfair condemnation...
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Kshrlmnt
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New York Times Democracy

Postby Kshrlmnt » Sun Jul 31, 2011 8:37 pm

CoN and CoJ have waited too long for this apology; the condemnation is a side issue.
Elindra Kshrlmnt Dion Diablessa
Lady of Loquacity and Archempress of Unknown

Mistress of the lolcats, Secretary of NS Disney, Author of Ask Ellie, Victim of the illustrious Flag Thief, Member of PETI
She whose name can too be pronounced

Koth - Last Monday at 9:38 AM
I get sad when I offend elindra because I don't intend to yet I will do absolutely nothing to prevent it

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Klaus Devestatorie
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Capitalizt

Postby Klaus Devestatorie » Sun Jul 31, 2011 9:13 pm

Unibot II wrote:
I think if the condemnation is to be repealed however, Unknown should also become an active opposition to forum destruction -- maybe having to do with COPS or something.


That would be what I am, last time I looked.

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Fotar
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Authoritarian Democracy

Postby Fotar » Mon Aug 01, 2011 3:35 am

As my last action as the leader of the now-declared disbanded Council of Narnia, I wish to fully and unconditionally accept the apology that has been offered to us. All has been forgiven from Narnia.
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The House of Petain
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Ex-Nation

Postby The House of Petain » Mon Aug 01, 2011 4:04 am

The plot thickens...
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Ballotonia
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Democratic Socialists

Postby Ballotonia » Mon Aug 01, 2011 4:13 am

Kshrlmnt wrote:But on the anniversary of our condemnation, we wish to reiterate: We do not, nor will we, encourage forum attacks like this. They will not be done in our name or on our behalf.


But do you accept it? Do you harbor those who do things like that? Do you feel those who do that deserve punishment or not?
We already knew you didn't order it in the first place. The condemnation was in regard to your region's acceptance of it happening afterwards, and sheltering the perpetrator.

Ballotonia
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Kshrlmnt
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New York Times Democracy

Postby Kshrlmnt » Mon Aug 01, 2011 9:54 am

To Unibot: We are willing to sign the COPS treaty. But again--this apology is not contingent on the condemnation, though the condemnation reminded us how much it was needed.

To Fotar: We thank you, from the depths of our hearts. Your forgiveness is a large part of what we need to move on as a region.

To Ballotonia: Forum attacks are completely unacceptable, and you're right--our response to Rougiers was too lax. And while justice should be served, justice should also be tempered with mercy and wisdom. We must remember stories like that of Corrie Ten Boom, who found the power to forgive one of the cruelest guards at Ravensbruck when he asked her forgiveness.

In the case of Rougiers, we gave him a second chance and were proved wrong. We have learned from that mistake.
Elindra Kshrlmnt Dion Diablessa
Lady of Loquacity and Archempress of Unknown

Mistress of the lolcats, Secretary of NS Disney, Author of Ask Ellie, Victim of the illustrious Flag Thief, Member of PETI
She whose name can too be pronounced

Koth - Last Monday at 9:38 AM
I get sad when I offend elindra because I don't intend to yet I will do absolutely nothing to prevent it

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Ballotonia
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Postby Ballotonia » Mon Aug 01, 2011 10:36 am

Ok, thank you for your clear answer. It's uplifting to see such a change in attitude and notion of responsibility compared to just one year ago.

Ballotonia
"Een volk dat voor tirannen zwicht zal meer dan lijf en goed verliezen, dan dooft het licht…" -- H.M. van Randwijk

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The Murtunian Tribes
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Founded: Oct 17, 2010
Ex-Nation

Postby The Murtunian Tribes » Mon Aug 01, 2011 2:32 pm

Yuktova wrote:I beieve that Rougiers should have been condemned rather than condemn Unknown. It looks to me that this region was innocent, and was a pawn in Rougiers' game of "destory the region". Hopefully, someone will repeal the unfair condemnation...

Where is the crazy fucker anyway.

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Evil Wolf
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Father Knows Best State

Postby Evil Wolf » Mon Aug 01, 2011 4:32 pm

IN UR FORUMS, CRAKIN UR PASSWORZ. :p

No really, I think he retired or something.
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Tim-Opolis
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Postby Tim-Opolis » Mon Aug 01, 2011 5:28 pm

Wow O_o

This came as a surprise. Interesting that they took the time to write that thing up
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Parti Ouvrier
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Ex-Nation

Postby Parti Ouvrier » Mon Oct 24, 2011 5:27 am

I don't particularly care really. We wish to remain neutral on this one.

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Crazy girl
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Postby Crazy girl » Mon Oct 24, 2011 8:19 am

If you don't care, why did you gravedig a thread that has been dead since augut 1st? :P

Considering recent events in the SC (the repeal condemn Unknown proposal) however, I'm gonna leave this open since it might spark some new comments/debate.

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Zaolat
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Ex-Nation

Postby Zaolat » Mon Oct 24, 2011 2:21 pm

Well since ya say so CG :P

-Love, Elmer




Hmm, as a long member of Crusaders of Justice and the Axiom Guild of Equinox, I had personally told Rougiers I did not forgive him, but I accepted his apology back in those days.

One thing, I wish that Unknown would have issued this statement at the anniversary of the attacks, rather than their own condemnation anniversary.

That aside, whilst I do believe Unknown could have done better in regards to Rougiers, I do not hold the past against them and believe that Unknown should not be condemned based on Rougiers actions alone.

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Denivogar
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Ex-Nation

Postby Denivogar » Tue Oct 25, 2011 5:34 am

So Kshrlmnt, what prompted this apology? I've not really known Unknown to be very generous without some benefit they would receive....

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Evil Wolf
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Founded: Apr 28, 2005
Father Knows Best State

Postby Evil Wolf » Tue Oct 25, 2011 5:38 am

Yes, clearly they had something to gain from this, money perhaps, fame even, but in all likelihood they did it in exchange for a bounty of human trafficked slave. :roll:
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Kryozerkia wrote:In the good old days raiding was illegal
Crazy Girl wrote:Invading was never illegal
[violet] wrote:There is supposed to be an invasion game.

Mallorea and Riva should be a Game Moderator Game Administrator.

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Denivogar
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Founded: Jun 18, 2006
Ex-Nation

Postby Denivogar » Tue Oct 25, 2011 5:43 am

Evil Wolf wrote:Yes, clearly they had something to gain from this, money perhaps, fame even, but in all likelihood they did it in exchange for a bounty of human trafficked slave. :roll:


EW, my experience with Unknown, specifically when it was under Savaer et. al., was that something like this really wasn't done out of generosity or kindness. If it was, I apologise, but I really would like to know why the change of heart.

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Zaolat
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Ex-Nation

Postby Zaolat » Tue Oct 25, 2011 2:13 pm

Denivogar wrote:
Evil Wolf wrote:Yes, clearly they had something to gain from this, money perhaps, fame even, but in all likelihood they did it in exchange for a bounty of human trafficked slave. :roll:


EW, my experience with Unknown, specifically when it was under Savaer et. al., was that something like this really wasn't done out of generosity or kindness. If it was, I apologise, but I really would like to know why the change of heart.


Probably, because they don't support forum destruction. ;)
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Kshrlmnt
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New York Times Democracy

Postby Kshrlmnt » Tue Oct 25, 2011 10:56 pm

Denivogar wrote:So Kshrlmnt, what prompted this apology? I've not really known Unknown to be very generous without some benefit they would receive....

Pretty much what was said in the apology, Denivogar. Regions change over time, in membership and attitudes. We did not approve of forum destruction even then (and any tolerance expressed by our actions at the time is a reason for the apology), and have grown even less tolerant of it since the incidents. We also came to view the condemnation less as a shiny badge of being against the world, and more as it really was: a condemnation for an incident we had begun to truly regret.

It would be a lie to say that the condemnation and Rougiers' attempted coup were not part of what prompted us to think of this. But we did it above everything because we are truly sorry for what happened, and the apology was deserved and needed.

An aside: At the time of the attacks I was not active in Unknown and did not know of the events. If, when I became active, I had seen any encouragement or approval of them, I would not now be in Unknown.
Elindra Kshrlmnt Dion Diablessa
Lady of Loquacity and Archempress of Unknown

Mistress of the lolcats, Secretary of NS Disney, Author of Ask Ellie, Victim of the illustrious Flag Thief, Member of PETI
She whose name can too be pronounced

Koth - Last Monday at 9:38 AM
I get sad when I offend elindra because I don't intend to yet I will do absolutely nothing to prevent it


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