Official Embassy of The South Pacific

[Vivec the God-King]

-snip-

I apologize if there is some miscommunication. Vvardenfell lists our co-participants in terms of region rather than individually for the sake of ease. I do not mean to portray the idea that the entire region of the South Pacific participated in one operation or another.

[Glen-Rhodes]

The South Pacific is happy to work with The Grey Wardens, and we hope more can be done together in the future.


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[Olevsky]

That was a good time and well-organized by Roavin (udabest).
It was also good to meet a few more faces from the SPSF, even if my head was pounding from the night before.

[Cormactopia II]

The South Pacific is happy to work with The Grey Wardens, and we hope more can be done together in the future.

I guess it isn't that surprising that the SPSF is defending more, since you've systematically destroyed the South Pacific's relations with non-defender regions, leaving The North Pacific and Europeia as the South Pacific's only independent allies. And on top of that you've ensured that the South Pacific has four treaties with defender regions.

I wonder how long it will be before you manage to sever ties between the South Pacific and its last two remaining independent allies.

[Glen-Rhodes]

There's the Cormac we know and love <3

[Drop Your Pants]

There's the Cormac we know and love <3

Love is a strong word.

[Evil Wolf]

There's the Cormac we know and love <3

How about, instead of dismissing the claims as "Cormac being Cormac", you actually address the criticism? Everything he said has a grain of truth to it Glen. How do you respond to the fact that every lost ally TSP has had in the past two years has come under your terms as MoFA, or that you have only signed TSP into alliances with Defender regions, or that every TSP ally that was pro-invader ended or had their alliance ended under your watch as MoFA?

These are facts, Glen, now lets hear some explanations.

Speaking of facts and ending alliances, has TSP properly posted their termination statement in TSP's Balder embassy, as jointly demanded by the Treaty, or has that still yet to occur and thus the Treaty is still active de jure?

[Falapatorius]

I guess it isn't that surprising that the SPSF is defending more, since you've systematically destroyed the South Pacific's relations with non-defender regions, leaving The North Pacific and Europeia as the South Pacific's only independent allies. And on top of that you've ensured that the South Pacific has four treaties with defender regions.

I'm having a hard time sharing your indignation. You (et al) couped Osiris (ostensibly to save it from itself). Tbh, TSP's alignment is TSP's business.

How about, instead of dismissing the claims as "Cormac being Cormac", you actually address the criticism? Everything he said has a grain of truth to it Glen. How do you respond to the fact that every lost ally TSP has had in the past two years has come under your terms as MoFA, or that you have only signed TSP into alliances with Defender regions, or that every TSP ally that was pro-invader ended or had their alliance ended under your watch as MoFA?

Demonize GR if you want, but he does represent TSP, so invaders are going to have to adjust to the fact that TSP might not be invader-friendly anymore. Not the end of the world.. is it? Unless... undermining GR's credibility is the goal here?

[Cormactopia II]

How about, instead of dismissing the claims as "Cormac being Cormac", you actually address the criticism? Everything he said has a grain of truth to it Glen. How do you respond to the fact that every lost ally TSP has had in the past two years has come under your terms as MoFA, or that you have only signed TSP into alliances with Defender regions, or that every TSP ally that was pro-invader ended or had their alliance ended under your watch as MoFA?

Demonize GR if you want, but he does represent TSP, so invaders are going to have to adjust to the fact that TSP might not be invader-friendly anymore. Not the end of the world.. is it?

It's not the end of the world for raiders, certainly. Could be a real problem for the South Pacific in the future though, if some raiders decide there's no compelling reason to refrain from supporting their next coup.

[North East Somerset]

Speaking of facts and ending alliances, has TSP properly posted their termination statement in TSP's Balder embassy, as jointly demanded by the Treaty, or has that still yet to occur and thus the Treaty is still active de jure?

That's correct, no notification has been made under Section 7 yet.

[Falapatorius]

It's not the end of the world for raiders, certainly. Could be a real problem for the South Pacific in the future though, if some raiders decide there's no compelling reason to refrain from supporting their next coup.

Fair enough. TSP is in real trouble if it relies on invaders compulsions though.

[Evil Wolf]

]Fair enough. TSP is in real trouble if it relies on invaders compulsions though.

Raider connections are what saved TNP from an onslaught of Gatesville support for JAL during his Durka II coup. Gatesville had no other reason to refrain from supporting JAL in what should have been a sure deal on their end. At the same time TITO, supposedly the bestest defender friend TNP has ever had, wouldn't even show up, claiming JAL's hostile takeover was "an internal matter".

GCR's reject Invaders at their own pearl, just like rejecting all Defenders has its downsides too. At the end of the day though, one of those sides will actually invade your region if they don't have reason not to, and the other won't, but both will defend you if your allied to them.

But I suppose being completely reliant on your defender friends has always worked out in the end for every GCR government, amirite?

[Belschaft]

Speaking of facts and ending alliances, has TSP properly posted their termination statement in TSP's Balder embassy, as jointly demanded by the Treaty, or has that still yet to occur and thus the Treaty is still active de jure?

That's correct, no notification has been made under Section 7 yet.

Well, considering that there's now a consensus in TSP that the treaty hasn't actually been dissolved on our end and - due to the Court refusing to rule on the legal issues, and sending it back to the Assembly - can't be until the Assembly decides what the procedure for such is, no such notification could actually be made.

[Sandaoguo]

How about, instead of dismissing the claims as "Cormac being Cormac", you actually address the criticism?

Sure, it's hypocrisy. Never hear a peep from your types when defenders feel that TSP is "too raider." So I shed no tears that you think TSP might be "too defender." I don't lead the military, Imki does. I'm just praising our cooperation with a burgeoning new defender groups.

It's not the end of the world for raiders, certainly. Could be a real problem for the South Pacific in the future though, if some raiders decide there's no compelling reason to refrain from supporting their next coup.

At the end of the day though, one of those sides will actually invade your region if they don't have reason not to, and the other won't, but both will defend you if your allied to them.

TSP isn't going to cozy up to you when you put a gun to our head. Comments like these just prove how backwards the raidersphere is.

[Fedele]

That wasn't a threat, comrade. Evil Wolf is generally pretty direct and plainly spoken when he feels the need to make a threatening statement.

[Cormactopia II]

How about, instead of dismissing the claims as "Cormac being Cormac", you actually address the criticism?

Sure, it's hypocrisy. Never hear a peep from your types when defenders feel that TSP is "too raider." So I shed no tears that you think TSP might be "too defender." I don't lead the military, Imki does. I'm just praising our cooperation with a burgeoning new defender groups.

Defenders think a military is too raider, and complain about it, if that military raids at all. In the entire time I've been playing, I've never known the SPSF to regularly participate in raiding, but that hasn't stopped people like you and Unibot from complaining on the rare occasions it does raid. This is different; all the SPSF is doing lately is defending, after you've systematically undermined the South Pacific's relations with non-defender regions.

I do find it amusing that you're praising the SPSF's cooperation with new defender groups, after not so long ago trying to ensure that the SPSF would not exist at all. Uncertain that you would be able to turn it completely defender, you wanted to eliminate the military altogether, and proposed legislation to that effect. That you are now praising it instead of trying to destroy it should tell everyone all they need to know about the SPSF's current alignment. If it weren't defender, you wouldn't be praising it, you would be seeking to wipe it out.

It's not the end of the world for raiders, certainly. Could be a real problem for the South Pacific in the future though, if some raiders decide there's no compelling reason to refrain from supporting their next coup.

At the end of the day though, one of those sides will actually invade your region if they don't have reason not to, and the other won't, but both will defend you if your allied to them.

TSP isn't going to cozy up to you when you put a gun to our head. Comments like these just prove how backwards the raidersphere is.

I'm not threatening to raid the South Pacific. When Osiris is threatening the South Pacific, you'll know about it.

The point, which you seem to have missed, is that raiders raid. Virtually the only regions safe from raiding are regions that are impenetrable (e.g., foundered, non-executive Delegate regions) or regions raiders work with -- raider regions, certainly, but also imperialist and independent regions that regularly participate in raids, even if they also participate in defenses. You seem to think this makes raiders "backwards." But why wouldn't raiders participate in a coup or invasion against the South Pacific absent any ties to the South Pacific, and especially if the South Pacific is a defender region, as appears to now be the case? If the South Pacific offers nothing of value to raiders, why not raid it?

[Drop Your Pants]

Defenders think a military is too raider, and complain about it, if that military raids at all. In the entire time I've been playing, I've never known the SPSF to regularly participate in raiding, but that hasn't stopped people like you and Unibot from complaining on the rare occasions it does raid. This is different; all the SPSF is doing lately is defending, after you've systematically undermined the South Pacific's relations with non-defender regions.

You're acting like the Unibot of the raider world

[RiderSyl]

Sure, it's hypocrisy. Never hear a peep from your types when defenders feel that TSP is "too raider." So I shed no tears that you think TSP might be "too defender." I don't lead the military, Imki does. I'm just praising our cooperation with a burgeoning new defender groups.

You're an influential figure in TSP. You've admitted to practicing backroom politics in TSP before. I am not buying your defense that you can't influence departments you're not in charge of. You calling out someone on hypocrisy is, funnily enough, hypocritical. And, because I really want to point this out, 'Never hear a peep from your types' is the kind of clunky phrase that belongs in a Noir RP, not in a Gameplay argument. Come on, Glen, get it together!

Unless... undermining GR's credibility is the goal here?

His credibility has been long killed, the remains burned, the particles put through a large hadron collider, and the atoms eaten by Chuck Norris.
So, I don't think that's the goal here.

You're acting like the Unibot of the raider world

I can assure you that he isn't.

[Falapatorius]

Raider connections are what saved TNP from an onslaught of Gatesville support for JAL during his Durka II coup.

That was before my time and not really relevant (not to mention off-topic). Anyway, I thought it was Gracius Maximus (aka Pierconium/Ivan) that saved TNP. My timeline may be off there, as I wasn't around NS then.

But I suppose being completely reliant on your defender friends has always worked out in the end for every GCR government, amirite?

Was that comment intended for me? I assure you, I don't buy into the whole R/D/Imperialist schtick. Way too competitive for me.

His credibility has been long killed, the remains burned, the particles put through a large hadron collider, and the atoms eaten by Chuck Norris. So, I don't think that's the goal here.

Ah.. so what is the goal then? If what you say is true, then you're just crows picking over a corpse. Classy.

[Zadiner]

While most people on this thread should get back to criticising their own awful regions, I'm concerned how much we are living up to Bel's high standard of us. If we are basically the best democracy in NS, how come everyone hates us?

[Imkitopia]

I'm glad to see everyone taking so much interest in our once dormant military again!
I can assure you the SPSF have no intention of going fenda and I am currently talking to more organisations about working together but as the Mininister of Military Affairs of an independent army I also see no reason to stop a keen recruit from doing what they enjoy if they aren't violating our military code. I don't buy into alignments, I'm as neutral as they come on that front and if anyone thinks Glen and I are best buds you've clearly never spoken to me.

[The Resentine Kingdom]

You're an influential figure in TSP. You've admitted to practicing backroom politics in TSP before. I am not buying your defense that you can't influence departments you're not in charge of.

Let me be the first to assure you, as somebody in TSP who doesn't like Glen, and someone in the Ministry of Military Affairs, his "influence" in our department specificly is very much minimal at best. Not to imply we don't work with him when we need to, or that we are outright un-cooperative if we have to work with him, but, implying he has direct influence over the military's actions and operations is annoying at best, and degrading at worst.

[Roavin]

The point, which you seem to have missed, is that raiders raid. Virtually the only regions safe from raiding are regions that are impenetrable (e.g., foundered, non-executive Delegate regions) or regions raiders work with -- raider regions, certainly, but also imperialist and independent regions that regularly participate in raids, even if they also participate in defenses. You seem to think this makes raiders "backwards." But why wouldn't raiders participate in a coup or invasion against the South Pacific absent any ties to the South Pacific, and especially if the South Pacific is a defender region, as appears to now be the case? If the South Pacific offers nothing of value to raiders, why not raid it?

Let's see.

<Roavin> .ec tsunamy
<FriarTuck> Roavin: 441
<Roavin> .spdr tsunamy
<FriarTuck> Roavin: 149701.00

In TSP, a committed endotarter can get to around 200-220 endorsements in a couple of weeks. So I'd argue there are much easier targets to take, even among the GCRs.

Hm.

Wait a minute.

<Roavin> .ec cormactopia_ii
<FriarTuck> Roavin: 145
<Roavin> .spdr cormactopia_ii
<FriarTuck> Roavin: 35324.00

You (a former staunch defender, might I add) recently proclaimed Osiris' support for raiders. Ever since then, you've made it a point to congratulate any raid announced on NSGP. You continually shit on TSP in this thread for supposedly being defender instead of independent/neutral (while ironically not saying anything about our ally Europeia whose ERN almost exclusively raids), and pretty candidly say that it's stupid not to align with raiders because they'll raid ya otherwise.

Let me look at those numbers again.

<Roavin> .ec cormactopia_ii
<FriarTuck> Roavin: 145
<Roavin> .spdr cormactopia_ii
<FriarTuck> Roavin: 35324.00

Tell me, Cormac. Are you afraid of raiders? And more importantly, do your raider friends know this is a relationship based on fear, not on conviction?

[Cormactopia II]

The point, which you seem to have missed, is that raiders raid. Virtually the only regions safe from raiding are regions that are impenetrable (e.g., foundered, non-executive Delegate regions) or regions raiders work with -- raider regions, certainly, but also imperialist and independent regions that regularly participate in raids, even if they also participate in defenses. You seem to think this makes raiders "backwards." But why wouldn't raiders participate in a coup or invasion against the South Pacific absent any ties to the South Pacific, and especially if the South Pacific is a defender region, as appears to now be the case? If the South Pacific offers nothing of value to raiders, why not raid it?

Let's see.

<Roavin> .ec tsunamy
<FriarTuck> Roavin: 441
<Roavin> .spdr tsunamy
<FriarTuck> Roavin: 149701.00

In TSP, a committed endotarter can get to around 200-220 endorsements in a couple of weeks. So I'd argue there are much easier targets to take, even among the GCRs.

If you think Feeders and Sinkers are typically taken by random tarting, you don't have any understanding of Feeder/Sinker warfare and really shouldn't even be discussing this. There hasn't been a successful coup as a result of random tarting in five years, and that one did in fact happen in the South Pacific.

You also clearly have no idea what makes for an appealing target for most raiders. Ease isn't one of the factors.

Hm.

Wait a minute.

<Roavin> .ec cormactopia_ii
<FriarTuck> Roavin: 145
<Roavin> .spdr cormactopia_ii
<FriarTuck> Roavin: 35324.00

You (a former staunch defender, might I add) recently proclaimed Osiris' support for raiders. Ever since then, you've made it a point to congratulate any raid announced on NSGP. You continually shit on TSP in this thread for supposedly being defender instead of independent/neutral (while ironically not saying anything about our ally Europeia whose ERN almost exclusively raids), and pretty candidly say that it's stupid not to align with raiders because they'll raid ya otherwise.

Let me look at those numbers again.

<Roavin> .ec cormactopia_ii
<FriarTuck> Roavin: 145
<Roavin> .spdr cormactopia_ii
<FriarTuck> Roavin: 35324.00

Tell me, Cormac. Are you afraid of raiders? And more importantly, do your raider friends know this is a relationship based on fear, not on conviction?

First of all, while it's certainly true that I've changed alignments in the past, I've been raider far longer than your nation has even existed. You're in no way qualified to talk about my past in NationStates like you know something about it.

If you did know something about me, you would know I'm not intimidated by anything or anyone in NationStates and never have been. Osiris is raider because the regional community has leaned raider since late 2013, because our community remains heavily raider, and because working with raiders is much, much more fun than working with defenders -- something I know from personal experience, as do several other Osirans whose alignments have changed from defender to raider because they were chased out of defending by its toxic political culture and serious out-of-character issues. Osiris has nothing to fear from anyone, because our system of government protects us from any threat. We protect ourselves through smart, stable government. We raid because we like raiding and it suits our interests.

The truth is either a defender or raider alignment has potentially risky consequences. Neutrality or independence is by far the safest alignment, in terms of minimizing risk to one's own region. By aligning with defenders, the South Pacific is making it entirely possible certain raiders may take action against the South Pacific in the future should the opportunity present itself. By adopting a raider alignment, Osiris is making it entirely possible certain so-called defenders may take action against us in the future should the opportunity present itself, as they have invaded other raider regions in the past. Far from being afraid of them, I invite them to try. I would much rather directly eject and ban them than live vicariously through the Legion.

[Altmoras]

First of all, while it's certainly true that I've changed alignments in the past, I've been raider far longer than your nation has even existed. You're in no way qualified to talk about my past in NationStates like you know something about it.

That's elitist even for you Cormac. It's a perfectly valid argument that a former defender turning raider on a dime might have ulterior motivations, especially considering Osiris' unstable history.