RAIDERCON 2023: A NEW FRONTIER

[Benevolent Thomas]

As Souls mentioned, it is something that a committee will decide as some point, but it will not be discussed this year. By holding off for now, it will allow time to pass to ensure that whatever decision made is done with thorough reflection.

This is extremely disappointing to hear. The effects of the crimes perpetuated and Gest's association with them will not weaken with the passage of time, no matter how hard some of you may wish it can be. I didn't expect to be invited back to the Con this year, but I can say now that I will not be attending.

[Solorni]

As Souls mentioned, it is something that a committee will decide as some point, but it will not be discussed this year. By holding off for now, it will allow time to pass to ensure that whatever decision made is done with thorough reflection.

This is extremely disappointing to hear. The effects of the crimes perpetuated and Gest's association with them will not weaken with the passage of time, no matter how hard some of you may wish it can be. I didn't expect to be invited back to the Con this year, but I can say now that I will not be attending.

This does not sound believable enough this time BT. I'd recommend trying to sound sincere as it would likely help people believe you are actually upset and not just diving for points.

[Jakker]

As Souls mentioned, it is something that a committee will decide as some point, but it will not be discussed this year. By holding off for now, it will allow time to pass to ensure that whatever decision made is done with thorough reflection.

This is extremely disappointing to hear. The effects of the crimes perpetuated and Gest's association with them will not weaken with the passage of time, no matter how hard some of you may wish it can be. I didn't expect to be invited back to the Con this year, but I can say now that I will not be attending.

It is not to weaken anything. I have wanted to develop a committee for the Hall of Fame that serves throughout the year to promote the Hall and add more aspects to it. When that happens, the group can decide how to approach this situation. Right now, like last year, I will be asking players to serve as judges for the second class. I don't think it would be fair to add the additional responsibility of making decision to them. I want them to just focus on this next class.

The committee will be tasked with thinking of the Hall overall, which this decision would fall under.

[Benevolent Thomas]

It seems that I've replaced Unibot in your heart, Rach. Feel free to continue taking shots at me, because I will not stop forcing the issue of what I see wrong in the GP community.

[Jakker]

It seems that I've replaced Unibot in your heart, Rach. Feel free to continue taking shots at me, because I will not stop forcing the issue of what I see wrong in the GP community.

I appreciate the accountability BT. As a raider, I have seen the effects firsthand. I take it all quite seriously which is why I want to make sure the decision is handled well.

[Solorni]

It seems that I've replaced Unibot in your heart, Rach. Feel free to continue taking shots at me, because I will not stop forcing the issue of what I see wrong in the GP community.

I just don't see how anyone could sincerely still be making such a big deal about something people have been and continue to be punished for. It's not like we're discussing a gameplay event in which there is the potential to think that justice was not served. I just don't think are sincere on this, particularly given that you have been silent on non-partisan or defender issues. It was a poorly made political move that was obviously that.

[Lord Ravenclaw]

I do not know if I'll be able to attend this year. Despite being founder of a region which actively raids, and delegate of a GCR which also raids on occasion, the dates aren't good for me.

I'm not spending another birthday on NS The last four being spent in-game is more than enough.

[Benevolent Thomas]

I just don't see how anyone could sincerely still be making such a big deal about something people have been and continue to be punished for. It's not like we're discussing a gameplay event in which there is the potential to think that justice was not served. I just don't think are sincere on this, particularly given that you have been silent on non-partisan or defender issues. It was a poorly made political move that was obviously that.

I honestly think that you just have a bias against me because of my alignment. I think my history of speaking out against what I believe to be wrong, even within the defender community, is well known. I think someone could do a side-by-side comparison of our posts a clearly see which of us is the peppiest partisan cheerleader.

I think you're one of the few people in gameplay that can't see why I can't just get over what happened. Yes, players got in trouble. I personally think a lot of the rulings were fair. People bitch and moan about three months when I dealt with the effects for two years. There was a conspiracy to violate the site's rules and to hide it from administration. When wistleblowers bravely came forward to let us know that something inappropriate was going on, several bad actors then attempted to impede the investigation by encouraging their peers to remain silent. I get that moderation has dished punishments, but we as a community have a responsibility to continue to hold these players accountable for their actions and make it known that this behavior is intolerable.

Moderation's punishments alone didn't change the culture in TBR/DEN after they got whacked for the telegram script violation and some of us recognize the potential for these things to keep happening unless we hold ourselves accountable.

[Benevolent Thomas]

Moderation's punishments alone didn't change the culture in TBR/DEN after they got whacked for the telegram script violation and some of us recognize the potential for these things to keep happening unless we hold ourselves accountable.

In this regard I've come to have more respect for The Black Hawks, EWS in particular, for sharing this point of view. They are the group I feel who have really committed to changing this "us versus the game" attitude and culture within invaderdom.

[Solorni]

So you honestly think that not allowing Gest to come to Raidercon will prevent cheating? Particularly when taking into account that the actual punishments by the mods are the only real deterrent. Not shaping up and cheating is obviously just dumb. I guess my reaction to these things tends to be more disappointment than anything else, but still it just does not strike me as being authentic to still be upset by it.

[Tim-Opolis]

So you honestly think that not allowing Gest to come to Raidercon will prevent cheating?

I don't think that's the request or the concern here, at least it certainly wasn't from me. The issue is that Gest was inducted into the Invader Hall of Fame, and currently remains in it, with the rulebreaking actions that he committed being so significant that not only did Moderation delete his nation, puppetsweep him, and ban him for 12 months, but The Black Hawks won't even work with regions in which he holds any authority positions. I couldn't care less if Gest showed up to Raidercon, all in all his presence is of no issue as that of others would be, the issue is his Hall of Fame status, something which shouldn't be granted anymore to someone who rulebroke so extensively, and certainly would cast doubts on the overall reputation of the Invader Hall of Fame if didn't hold standards against stuff like that.

[Todd McCloud]

This was definitely a fun thing last year

[Cormactopia II]

This is extremely disappointing to hear. The effects of the crimes perpetuated and Gest's association with them will not weaken with the passage of time, no matter how hard some of you may wish it can be. I didn't expect to be invited back to the Con this year, but I can say now that I will not be attending.

It is not to weaken anything. I have wanted to develop a committee for the Hall of Fame that serves throughout the year to promote the Hall and add more aspects to it. When that happens, the group can decide how to approach this situation. Right now, like last year, I will be asking players to serve as judges for the second class. I don't think it would be fair to add the additional responsibility of making decision to them. I want them to just focus on this next class.

The committee will be tasked with thinking of the Hall overall, which this decision would fall under.

As someone who was on the judges' panel for the Hall of Fame last year, I believe this is a sensible approach. I don't think anyone is trying to sweep anything under the rug or hope with the passage of time that no one will care and it will be forgotten, but these decisions should be deliberative. I agree that placing the burden for this on this year's judges' panel, as well as asking them to decide on this year's Hall of Fame, is a bit much to ask. A committee tasked with overseeing the Hall of Fame is likely to make a better decision, as it won't also have to be focused on this year's inductees.

[The Stalker]

While I think many of us would like to see the issue of Gest addressed this year, I can understand why it might be difficult for the raider community to deal with it so soon. Doing it this year would likely overshadow the event itself, the whole cheating scandal in general is something I expect will be a challenge to get through during the event this year.

[Numero Capitan]

Seeing as I wasn't really around at the time and didn't want to gravedig a topic I never commented on this at the time, but now it's come up I wanted to share my thoughts. This is just my honest opinion and I'm not trying to bait anyone by saying it, but I found the hall of fame slightly laughable, I won't name names for the sake of keeping the peace.

There's a couple on there I actually respect (having been in close proximity to all of them at some point) but the majority of the inductees are just people who have failed time and time again but had enough desperate attempts at success that eventually a few of them stuck. My initial reaction was to be slightly smug and mocking of the choices but upon reflection those inductees have been surrounded by far better raiders/region builders/politicians who are much more deserving of recognition. As a group they're all very dogmatic and I can see why raiders might rally around them but very few have been pragmatic when they've needed to be and most achieved vague success through being obsessive rather than skilled at what they do.

A committee might go a long way to resolving the shortcomings of the hall of fame so far, but I'd seriously question the thinking and depth of knowledge behind the decisions made previously, not simply just Gests inclusion.

Hopefully people will realise I've spent more of my time on NS on raider forums than defender ones before they accuse me of partisan bias. Not meaning to provoke any sort of argument, just hope those involved in this previously will take on board the above.

[Jakker]

There are a lot of well-deserving players in NS history. Like last year, there will be open nominations. I hope to see many awesome choices. If you have any thoughts, Numero Capitan, feel free to make as many nominations as you'd like!

[RiderSyl]

To be fair, the last time the Gameplay Awards were held (IIRC, the FRA were holding those), a now-DoS player was only a few votes short of being awarded Best Raider of the Year, being defeated by Ever-Wandering Souls.

Anything that allows open nominations is going to be privy to some form of tunnel-vision, no matter the safeguards you put in place.

[Evil Wolf]

This is extremely disappointing to hear. The effects of the crimes perpetuated and Gest's association with them will not weaken with the passage of time, no matter how hard some of you may wish it can be. I didn't expect to be invited back to the Con this year, but I can say now that I will not be attending.

The FRA's awards for the Best Invader Group and for the Defender of the Year are both named after two of the most prolific forum destroyers the Defender side has ever had the disgrace of affiliating with.

Should I feign outrage now or later?

[Scardino]

Should I feign outrage now or later?

Don't leave us waiting. Do it now.

For Violet's sake, at least Tom was prompt with it.

[Klaus Devestatorie]

Seeing as I wasn't really around at the time and didn't want to gravedig a topic I never commented on this at the time, but now it's come up I wanted to share my thoughts. This is just my honest opinion and I'm not trying to bait anyone by saying it, but I found the hall of fame slightly laughable, I won't name names for the sake of keeping the peace.

There's a couple on there I actually respect (having been in close proximity to all of them at some point) but the majority of the inductees are just people who have failed time and time again but had enough desperate attempts at success that eventually a few of them stuck. My initial reaction was to be slightly smug and mocking of the choices but upon reflection those inductees have been surrounded by far better raiders/region builders/politicians who are much more deserving of recognition. As a group they're all very dogmatic and I can see why raiders might rally around them but very few have been pragmatic when they've needed to be and most achieved vague success through being obsessive rather than skilled at what they do.

A committee might go a long way to resolving the shortcomings of the hall of fame so far, but I'd seriously question the thinking and depth of knowledge behind the decisions made previously, not simply just Gests inclusion.

Hopefully people will realise I've spent more of my time on NS on raider forums than defender ones before they accuse me of partisan bias. Not meaning to provoke any sort of argument, just hope those involved in this previously will take on board the above.

Just for lulz, who would you have inducted instead?

[Benevolent Thomas]

Have numero take my former seat on the HoF panel. He surely has a better grasp of GP history than I. It would also be fun to see who he'd mention that were left off the list last year that others had pushed for.

[Guy]

This is extremely disappointing to hear. The effects of the crimes perpetuated and Gest's association with them will not weaken with the passage of time, no matter how hard some of you may wish it can be. I didn't expect to be invited back to the Con this year, but I can say now that I will not be attending.

The FRA's awards for the Best Invader Group and for the Defender of the Year are both named after two of the most prolific forum destroyers the Defender side has ever had the disgrace of affiliating with.

Should I feign outrage now or later?

For the record, the DotY Award has not been named after anyone for years.

[Evil Wolf]

For the record, the DotY Award has not been named after anyone for years.

And yet the list of previous award winners still refers to the award as the "The Eurosoviets Award/Defender of the Year Award". I guess the message the FRA was trying to convey was "we recognize the controversy surrounding this known Forum Destroyer, but we're only paying lip-service and we're not really sorry at all".

And don't get me wrong, Lone Wolves United was truly flattered by being honored as the first winner of FRA's Best Invader Group in 2007. The name of the award though, The Blackbird Award, honoring yet another Forum Destroyer? Well, not as honored by that.

But I am sure now that I've pointed this out it will be removed immediately, right? I mean, surely Defenders wouldn't be so hypocritical as to demand Gest's prompt removal from the Raider Hall of Fame without first revoking the honor that they bestowed upon arguably the worst Forum Destroyer in the history of the game.

Juuuuust saying.

[Scardino]

It might be nice to have this year but it is pretty close to the event to be putting it up to the judges. This approach may be too conservative for the taste of some but I feel that is preferable to any level of undue controversy at an event that should be a celebration. Let the issue have the time it needs to be worked out and resolved quietly in the time leading up to the next RaiderCon.

[Almonaster Nuevo]

For the record, the DotY Award has not been named after anyone for years.

And yet the list of previous award winners still refers to the award as the "The Eurosoviets Award/Defender of the Year Award". I guess the message the FRA was trying to convey was "we recognize the controversy surrounding this known Forum Destroyer, but we're only paying lip-service and we're not really sorry at all".

And don't get me wrong, Lone Wolves United was truly flattered by being honored as the first winner of FRA's Best Invader Group in 2007. The name of the award though, The Blackbird Award, honoring yet another Forum Destroyer? Well, not as honored by that.

But I am sure now that I've pointed this out it will be removed immediately, right? I mean, surely Defenders wouldn't be so hypocritical as to demand Gest's prompt removal from the Raider Hall of Fame without first revoking the honor that they bestowed upon arguably the worst Forum Destroyer in the history of the game.

Juuuuust saying.

Wait a minute. When did Blackbird destroy a forum?