NationStates

Posted: **Tue May 24, 2016 8:00 pm**

The Puddle Jumping Wads of Wrapper wrote:
Ovybia wrote:Seriously. They're just names in a game. Get over it.

There's nothing to get over.

Ok that's funny :clap:

but my point still holds. If you wouldn't vote for a region named "Hitler", I don't see why you should vote for a region with a name based on the symbol of even more horrific evils.

I am also curious as to why you changed your vote. You found fault with my arguments against the proposal and somehow you considered that to nullify your own reasons for voting against it? :eyebrow:

Posted: **Tue May 24, 2016 8:18 pm**

Ovybia wrote:
The Puddle Jumping Wads of Wrapper wrote:There's nothing to get over.

Ok that's funny but my point still holds. If you wouldn't vote for a region named "Hitler"; I don't see why you should vote for a region with a name based on the symbol of even more horrific evils.

See, to me, the name Hell doesn't evoke that image. It means a place I really visited. And an awesome song that is the epitome of the retro-swing revival of the '90s. My judgement isn't clouded by some other connotation associated with the word.

I am also curious as to why you changed your vote. You found fault with my arguments against the proposal and somehow you considered that to nullify your own reasons for voting against it?

Pretty much. I'm petty like that with my SC votes. To be honest, I initially voted FOR and switched to AGAINST when Wallenburg brought up the error (I won't call it a lie, that's not what it is) in the proposal regarding WA membership. Your argument, however, makes me feel that the region is getting a bad rap from people who are blind to what's actually going on in the region, and are voting against it merely because of their name, which does not bring the nearly universal disdain that the names of Hitler and the Holocaust do. I feel in this case that such actions deserve an opposite reaction.

Who knows, I may switch my vote again later. That is my right as a voter, you know.

Posted: **Tue May 24, 2016 8:27 pm**

The people voting against this because the region is called "Hell" demonstrate a fact well-known in the Security - most voters don't read the proposal and instead equate RL names to NS names. For example, my proposal to repeal "Liberate Nazi Europe" failed because, shock of shocks, the lemmings saw Nazi and voted against. I commend Yokiria for tackling such a difficult region. I hope this passes - even if it is just about the lulz.

Posted: **Tue May 24, 2016 8:54 pm**

Ovybia wrote:
The Puddle Jumping Wads of Wrapper wrote:Hitler was a real and despicable person, and the Holocaust a genuine tragedy.

Seriously. They're just names in a game. Get over it.

If they are just names in a game, why are you making such a fuss over "Hell"?

Ovybia wrote:
Wallenburg wrote:...

http://minecraft.gamepedia.com/The_Nether

Still not the same. Hell is the generally recognized word for the source of all evil. If something bad happens, we say it came from "hell" not "the nether." If someone purposely names their region "hell," he is obviously making a moral statement and I'm not sure exactly what that statement is. It sounds to me like a statement related to the "Black Mass" (which was created to be offensive to Catholics).

You're missing the point. They are two fictional places that a lot of people associate with really bad, evil things. They are both also used as the names of NS regions. Both those regions have little to nothing to do with those places.

Posted: **Tue May 24, 2016 10:58 pm**

Wallenburg wrote:
Ovybia wrote:Seriously. They're just names in a game. Get over it.

If they are just names in a game, why are you making such a fuss over "Hell"?

You missed the joke

Posted: **Wed May 25, 2016 4:32 am**

Writing "Aware of the irony" is no excuse to just go and condemn them! What is going through your head?! They seem to be running themselves properly, so leave them be until they actually cause trouble!

Posted: **Wed May 25, 2016 5:50 am**

Math Nation wrote:Writing "Aware of the irony" is no excuse to just go and condemn them! What is going through your head?! They seem to be running themselves properly, so leave them be until they actually cause trouble!

This is a commendation, not a condemnation.

Posted: **Wed May 25, 2016 5:53 am**

Math Nation wrote:Writing "Aware of the irony" is no excuse to just go and condemn them! What is going through your head?! They seem to be running themselves properly, so leave them be until they actually cause trouble!

Commend, not condemn.

Posted: **Wed May 25, 2016 6:04 am**

It's passing by such a close margin that I could honestly make a difference with a campaign. Oh look!

Posted: **Wed May 25, 2016 7:53 am**

Floor 448 wrote:It's passing by such a close margin that I could honestly make a difference with a campaign. Oh look!

OOC: This is a close margin? My commendation of Glen-Rhodes failed by about 3 votes! :lol:

Posted: **Wed May 25, 2016 8:03 am**

Sciongrad wrote:
Floor 448 wrote:It's passing by such a close margin that I could honestly make a difference with a campaign. Oh look!

OOC: This is a close margin? My commendation of Glen-Rhodes failed by about 3 votes!

When I swapped my vote it went from a 30-vote margin one way to a 20-vote margin the other way. Since then, The Pacific's delegate swapped votes as well, so now it's passing by a much larger margin.

Posted: **Wed May 25, 2016 8:59 am**

Ovybia wrote:
The Puddle Jumping Wads of Wrapper wrote:There's nothing to get over.

Ok that's funny but my point still holds. If you wouldn't vote for a region named "Hitler", I don't see why you should vote for a region with a name based on the symbol of even more horrific evils.

I am also curious as to why you changed your vote. You found fault with my arguments against the proposal and somehow you considered that to nullify your own reasons for voting against it?

Some people don't even believe in Hell.

Whereas anything that has the name "Nazi" portrayed in a positive way or using it like any other name is very disturbing due to the fact that
they are considered the most evil in the world and they are responsible for the largest known genocide in history, the holocaust. Systematically
killing people on a massive scale. And if that doesn't do it for you, then it is simply offensive due to their racist genocidal behavior.

And I know you're going to say that some people don't believe in the Holocaust either but there is evidence and it is a well-established fact
that they killed millions of people in 20,000 concentration camps throughout Europe. Holocaust deniers.

Posted: **Wed May 25, 2016 4:23 pm**

Ah ha! Just as I suspected that the region was meant to make an anti-Catholic (or anti-christian) statement, the current WA delegate of hell, The Stalker, has a picture of a Catholic priest as his nation flag. If there was any doubt left that the region was made to be offensive to Christians, this should end it. The connotation of the word "hell" may not mean evil to you but it obviously does to the region's occupants.

Many of us may not agree with Christian/Catholic thinking but that doesn't mean we should tolerate commending a region whose WA delegate is purposely attempting to offend that religious group.

Posted: **Wed May 25, 2016 4:26 pm**

Ovybia wrote:Ah ha! Just as I suspected that the region was meant to make an anti-Catholic (or anti-christian) statement, the current WA delegate of hell, The Stalker, has a picture of a Catholic priest as his nation flag. If there was any doubt left that the region was made to be offensive to Christians, this should end it. The connotation of the word "hell" may not mean evil to you but it obviously does to the region's occupants.

Many of us may not agree with Christian/Catholic thinking but that doesn't mean we should tolerate commending a region whose WA delegate is purposely attempting to offend that religious group.

True. I already voted against this though.

Posted: **Wed May 25, 2016 4:31 pm**

Ovybia wrote:Ah ha! Just as I suspected that the region was meant to make an anti-Catholic (or anti-christian) statement, the current WA delegate of hell, The Stalker, has a picture of a Catholic priest as his nation flag. If there was any doubt left that the region was made to be offensive to Christians, this should end it. The connotation of the word "hell" may not mean evil to you but it obviously does to the region's occupants.

Many of us may not agree with Christian/Catholic thinking but that doesn't mean we should tolerate commending a region whose WA delegate is purposely attempting to offend that religious group.

...

That's Crowley. The king of Hell. From Supernatural.

For fuck's sake...

Posted: **Wed May 25, 2016 4:32 pm**

Ovybia wrote:Ah ha! Just as I suspected that the region was meant to make an anti-Catholic (or anti-christian) statement, the current WA delegate of hell, The Stalker, has a picture of a Catholic priest as his nation flag. If there was any doubt left that the region was made to be offensive to Christians, this should end it. The connotation of the word "hell" may not mean evil to you but it obviously does to the region's occupants.

Many of us may not agree with Christian/Catholic thinking but that doesn't mean we should tolerate commending a region whose WA delegate is purposely attempting to offend that religious group.

So he has a flag . . . that looks like a priest . . . your point? Just because he's in a region called Hell doesn't mean he's Anti-Christian. Hell, I'd join that region. (See what I did there?

) It's called having a persona that you maintain. Try thinking IC and not like IRL. It'd certainly help you sound more reasonable.

Posted: **Wed May 25, 2016 4:38 pm**

Wallenburg wrote:
Ovybia wrote:Ah ha! Just as I suspected that the region was meant to make an anti-Catholic (or anti-christian) statement, the current WA delegate of hell, The Stalker, has a picture of a Catholic priest as his nation flag. If there was any doubt left that the region was made to be offensive to Christians, this should end it. The connotation of the word "hell" may not mean evil to you but it obviously does to the region's occupants.

Many of us may not agree with Christian/Catholic thinking but that doesn't mean we should tolerate commending a region whose WA delegate is purposely attempting to offend that religious group.

...

That's Crowley. The king of Hell. From Supernatural.

For **** sake...

I still think it's offensive regardless of whether it's from a movie or not.

Posted: **Wed May 25, 2016 4:46 pm**

Ovybia wrote:I still think it's offensive regardless of whether it's from a movie or not.

Supernatural is actually a TV series, not a movie.

Additionally, speaking as a Christian and as the author of this proposal, my bill does not commend wickedness. The nation that founded the region as 'Hell', naming himself SATAN, got deleted for breaking site rules. The nations in the region Hell follow a theme. They're no more harmful than a kid showing up at your door on Halloween night dressed up as a little devil.

If you would get offended at that too, though, Ovybia, then I would suggest a dose of perspective.

Posted: **Wed May 25, 2016 4:48 pm**

Ovybia wrote:
Wallenburg wrote:...

That's Crowley. The king of Hell. From Supernatural.

For **** sake...

I still think it's offensive regardless of whether it's from a movie or not.

TV series, and if you are seriously voting against this because the delegate of the region in question has a flag depicting a fictional character that just so happens to be wearing a priest's outfit, I'm not sure why I should ever take you seriously.

Posted: **Wed May 25, 2016 4:51 pm**

Wallenburg wrote:if you are seriously voting against this because the delegate of the region in question has a flag depicting a fictional character that just so happens to be wearing a priest's outfit, I'm not sure why I should ever take you seriously.

I already explained why I was voting against it long before I discovered the WA delegate's flag which, as I said, only confirmed what I already thought.

To move on past the title, what in the world does "Aware of the irony" mean?

Posted: **Wed May 25, 2016 4:54 pm**

Ovybia wrote:
Wallenburg wrote:...

That's Crowley. The king of Hell. From Supernatural.

For **** sake...

I still think it's offensive regardless of whether it's from a movie or not.

Supernatural is actually a really good show.

Have you seen it?

Posted: **Wed May 25, 2016 5:01 pm**

Ovybia wrote:
Wallenburg wrote:That's Crowley. The king of Hell. From Supernatural.

For **** sake...

I still think it's offensive regardless of whether it's from a movie or not.

We Are Not the NSA wrote:4) Against; I will blindly vote against without even reading it because the lord compels me to do so.

Posted: **Wed May 25, 2016 5:02 pm**

Ovybia wrote:
Wallenburg wrote:if you are seriously voting against this because the delegate of the region in question has a flag depicting a fictional character that just so happens to be wearing a priest's outfit, I'm not sure why I should ever take you seriously.

I already explained why I was voting against it long before I discovered the WA delegate's flag which, as I said, only confirmed what I already thought.

And I already explained why that "reason" was complete bullshit.

Posted: **Wed May 25, 2016 5:04 pm**

We Are Not the NSA wrote:
Ovybia wrote:I still think it's offensive regardless of whether it's from a movie or not.

We Are Not the NSA wrote:4) Against; I will blindly vote against without even reading it because the lord compels me to do so.

I decided to look into Ovybia's recommended region, Right to Life, and found him telling members of the region that voted for my proposal this:

Ovybia wrote:If you really want to spend eternity there, go ahead and commend a region named after it.

Absolutely ridiculous. You won't suffer eternal damnation just because you voted for something on a game.

Posted: **Wed May 25, 2016 5:44 pm**

We Are Not the NSA wrote:
Ovybia wrote:I still think it's offensive regardless of whether it's from a movie or not.

We Are Not the NSA wrote:4) Against; I will blindly vote against without even reading it because the lord compels me to do so.

If I ever decide to propose "Commend Hitler," I better not hear any "I vote against without even reading because Truman compels me to do so."

Note: You may not believe in hell but I do. As a christian, I believe hell is much worst than all of Nazi Germany and Hitler's regime combined so you should be able to understand the reason for my vote.

Yokiria wrote:I decided to look into Ovybia's recommended region, Right to Life, and found him telling members of the region that voted for my proposal this:
Ovybia wrote:If you really want to spend eternity there, go ahead and commend a region named after it.

Absolutely ridiculous. You won't suffer eternal damnation just because you voted for something on a game.

I don't mean to sound rude but: Please learn logic. I was stating that if one wanted to go to hell, he should vote for the proposal. The converse is not necessarily true (i.e. if you commend the region then you want to go to hell).

NationStates

[PASSED] Commend Hell