NationStates

Bananaistan wrote:OOC: How did you send the TG to delegates?

Manually.

How many did you send and did you use a template? If you did use a template and you ultimately sent the TG to more than 1000 recipients, you can see the delivery reports at the bottom of the TG in your sent folder.

Just FYI, I didn't get a campaign TG.

Kaboomlandia wrote:

Who should I campaign?

Ideally, the best delegates to send your telegram to are the delegates of the big regions that will have a lot of pull in the WA. Many delegates vote early, causing what is known as the "lemming effect", in which latecomers to the voting table jump on the bandwagon and vote for the majority.

Good regions to send it to are:

• The feeders: The Pacific, The North Pacific, The South Pacific, The West Pacific, The East Pacific
• The sinkers: Osiris, Lazarus, Balder
• The Rejected Realms
• Large user-created regions: Europeia, 10000 Islands, The Communist Bloc

So I should have sent it to more delegates?

Oh. That's not how I would have gone about it! You'd need to send it to more than about 12 delegates to get 91 to approve it. In any case the above refers to how the delegates vote once it's at vote (and anyway, for voting the delegates of the big regions typically won't be swayed by a TG as they mostly go by forum polls or how their members vote in game.)

First thing to do is to set it up as a template:

If you want to reach a large number of nations without buying stamps, you can send the same message over and over, addressing it to eight or fewer nations at a time. This is more time-consuming, but less money-consuming. Please use a Telegram Template, which makes the process faster, less error-prone, and provides Delivery Reports. To do this, first register a template by sending your telegram to "tag:template" and use the special code it gives you to send copies to other nations.

If you're doing it manually, a good starting point is to hit all the delegates who have approved other proposals in the queue.

You can use this: http://nsdossier.texasregion.net/statistics.aspx tool to get a current list of all delegates (hit submit world request and then export to excel). I'd recommend sorting it by number of nations and TGing the biggest regions first. There are ways to get excel to throw you out rows of 8 names only each separated by a comma but it's a while since I've done it so I can't recall exactly how.

Or you could also use an API but I can't advise you on that.

Or you could buy stamps and hit all the WA delegates at the same time.

One last thing. Whether you do it manually, by script, or by stamps, ensure you mark it as a campaign TG.

Umeria wrote:*snip*

OOC: Oh sweetie, you should've said you had no idea how to campaign. I thought you only didn't know the methods to send them.

Those big regions listed on that thread are for when you have quorum and are trying to get votes from the high-endorsement delegates.

To get approvals, which you need to get your proposal to vote, you probably need to send hundreds of TGs to get even a small portion of delegates to approve them.

Araraukar wrote:

Umeria wrote:*snip*

OOC: Oh sweetie, you should've said you had no idea how to campaign. I thought you only didn't know the methods to send them.

Those big regions listed on that thread are for when you have quorum and are trying to get votes from the high-endorsement delegates.

To get approvals, which you need to get your proposal to vote, you probably need to send hundreds of TGs to get even a small portion of delegates to approve them.

Well, I'm going to do that now, and hope it's not too late. Are you allowed to resubmit a proposal?

OOC: My suggestions:

It's too late in this proposal's cycle to do another campaign for it.

Yes, you can resubmit it (not a mod, but I've literally never seen anyone punished for this) but I would advise waiting until after this submission times out to try again. You might even be better off waiting a few days more, so as to reduce delegate fatigue.

Don't use that "guide" written by Kaboomlandia, for any purposes.

You have nearly two days, if you get started now, you might have time. If not, yes, you can resubmit it as many times as you want (just ask Vancouvia), but after the fourth or fifth or sixth time or so expect a bit of backlash over it (just ask Vancouvia).

Hannasea wrote:You might even be better off waiting a few days more, so as to reduce delegate fatigue.

OOC: Or even until IA gets back, if he was originally going to help run the campaign.

Wrapper wrote:You have nearly two days, if you get started now, you might have time.

Okay, 200 successful deliveries so far. Is that enough?

Umeria wrote:

Wrapper wrote:You have nearly two days, if you get started now, you might have time.

Okay, 200 successful deliveries so far. Is that enough?

OOC: Very unlikely. I'd go for something like 500-700. Remember, not all of them are going to be logging in within the next 1.5 days, not all of those that will be logging in are going to have time for a GA proposal (especially the delegates of the biggest regions), and many of those that actually take the time to read the proposal, won't agree with it (many delegates are delegates just for region defending reasons) and thus won't approve it. The more campaign telegrams you can get done, the better the chances that enough of them will agree to let your proposal to go to vote.

Araraukar wrote:

Hannasea wrote:You might even be better off waiting a few days more, so as to reduce delegate fatigue.

OOC: Or even until IA gets back, if he was originally going to help run the campaign.

I am going to help, when I get back. Unfortunately, this just happened to be when I am on holiday. To run a campaign, you need around 13 hours of uninterrupted Internet time. I don't have that out here in a foreign nation.

Imperium Anglorum wrote:

Araraukar wrote:OOC: Or even until IA gets back, if he was originally going to help run the campaign.

I am going to help, when I get back. Unfortunately, this just happened to be when I am on holiday. To run a campaign, you need around 13 hours of uninterrupted Internet time. I don't have that out here in a foreign nation.

13 hours?? How does anyone get anything passed?

Umeria wrote:

Imperium Anglorum wrote:I am going to help, when I get back. Unfortunately, this just happened to be when I am on holiday. To run a campaign, you need around 13 hours of uninterrupted Internet time. I don't have that out here in a foreign nation.

13 hours?? How does anyone get anything passed?

Masterfully.

Umeria wrote:

Imperium Anglorum wrote:I am going to help, when I get back. Unfortunately, this just happened to be when I am on holiday. To run a campaign, you need around 13 hours of uninterrupted Internet time. I don't have that out here in a foreign nation.

13 hours?? How does anyone get anything passed?

OOC: 13 hours means using the API to TG pretty much all delegates. It isn't absolutely necessary, but doing a manual campaign takes probably longer. Or at least takes a LOT of preparations. That said, manual campaigning is entirely possible. Especially if you're more choosy about who you TG.

If this goes through I'm going to approve it, simply cause I can cleanse any infection with gunfire flmethrowers and a healthy dose of explosives.

rendering the infected person non-contagious;
ensuring the infected person does not undergo any unnecessary harm

I'd say gunfire and burning the bodies would render them uncontagious. And surely letting people with an incurable contagious disease live on suffering in agony would be undue harm. SEND IN THE TROOPS!

also this one reads as if I'm to give an infected person EVERY treatment under the sun, surely that too would kill them as effectively as shooting them, if only from the drug overdoses. Probably best to give them the treatment for the disease they actually have.

provide every treatment to all infected persons that are in a quarantine while taking any available precaution to ensure that the people administering these treatments are not infected;

My precaution is my soldiers will shoot them from really far away, or my doctors can shout encouragement and instructions through speakers while my planes airdrop medical equipment in.

OOC: It's a good proposal, I'm just saying how a dictatorship like mine would use it. It'd be easier to kill the infected for my economy then charge EPARC for the cost of the bullets and flamethrower fuel, and your proposal would make it perfectly legal

Cogoria wrote:If this goes through I'm going to approve it, simply cause I can cleanse any infection with gunfire flmethrowers and a healthy dose of explosives.

You can already do that. The point of this resolution is to keep that from happening.

Cogoria wrote:And surely letting people with an incurable contagious disease live on suffering in agony would be undue harm.

No, suffering and harm are different things. Killing someone is an infinite amount of harm to them. Also, they don't have painkillers in your nation?

Cogoria wrote:also this one reads as if I'm to give an infected person EVERY treatment under the sun

Every available treatment that meets the definition of "treatment" in 2(d).

Cogoria wrote:Probably best to give them the treatment for the disease they actually have.

Any treatment not for the disease they have would not be given to help that infected person, and would therefore not be a treatment.

Cogoria wrote:My precaution is my soldiers will shoot them from really far away,

That's not part of the treatment.

Cogoria wrote:or my doctors can shout encouragement and instructions through speakers while my planes airdrop medical equipment in.

Now that is a reasonable treatment.

Cogoria wrote:and your proposal would make it perfectly legal

This proposal does none of the things you claim. I suggest you read it more closely.

Cogoria wrote:If this goes through I'm going to approve it, simply cause I can cleanse any infection with gunfire flmethrowers and a healthy dose of explosives.
[...]
I'd say gunfire and burning the bodies would render them uncontagious. And surely letting people with an incurable contagious disease live on suffering in agony would be undue harm. SEND IN THE TROOPS!
[...]
My precaution is my soldiers will shoot them from really far away, or my doctors can shout encouragement and instructions through speakers while my planes airdrop medical equipment in.
[...]
OOC: It's a good proposal, I'm just saying how a dictatorship like mine would use it. It'd be easier to kill the infected for my economy then charge EPARC for the cost of the bullets and flamethrower fuel, and your proposal would make it perfectly legal

^ This, ambassadors, is why the "reasonable nation theory" exists.

Well The Cogorian government would still strongly feel purging all infected persons would be a necessary harm, to end their suffering, and render them noncontagious. Unnecessary harm seems vague, who determines what is necessary? The patient or the Government?

Cogoria wrote:Well The Cogorian government would still strongly feel purging all infected persons would be a necessary harm, to end their suffering, and render them noncontagious. Unnecessary harm seems vague, who determines what is necessary? The patient or the Government?

It's your government's right, ambassador. However, democratic and non-authoritarian nations may feel it's extreme and potentially unreasonable.

How other nations feel about our methods matter little to us as long as this legislation will not force us to change our current epidemic suppression tactics, I seem to see no area in which it does and so as I stated previously, I shall vote in favour of it. Should it reach the table of course

Cogoria wrote:Well The Cogorian government would still strongly feel purging all infected persons would be a necessary harm, to end their suffering, and render them noncontagious. Unnecessary harm seems vague, who determines what is necessary? The patient or the Government?

Well - if you (personally) were sick, and fell under the purview of this proposal, would you want to be treated with a flamethrower or with medicine and kindness?

I realise it does seem a little trite and cliched, but the "do unto others" paradigm does seem to be a good place to start.

The needs of the many out way the needs of the few, seems a better starting point for my nation. So we'll fence off the area filled with sickos, extract any non infected and then purge. We will of course comply with the legislation and provide proper protection for the troops.